So I'm a high mass bridge convert..

Surly · #1 07-27-2010, 07:33 PM

Tonight I swapped my Squier Classic Vibe's (P-bass) stock high mass bridge with a Fender bridge like the ones which came on an American Series (pre 08). The reason I swapped bridges is because I could not get the Squier to intonate perfectly. So this was sort of a test- with the better bridge I was able to get the intonation right, however I could instantly feel the loss of sustain. This is the second time I have gone from high mass to a "regular" bridge on a bass and have felt that loss. I figured I'd share my experience since nobody else will ever care and I spent some time swapping parts.....

my $.02...

MechEngr · #2 07-27-2010, 07:40 PM

If you can't get it to intonate correctly, the bridge itself may have been mounted in the wrong place. On the other hand, if you're finding the G string won't intonate, the problem might be cured by installing an extra-long intonation adjustment screw. I've found several Fender bass bridges that needed one. (I work as a guitar tech in a local music store.)

BigOldHarry · #3 07-27-2010, 07:43 PM

This problem has *nothing* to do with the mass of the bridge - nothing.

The placement of the bridge or the quality - sure. And a Squier with a cheap bridge? Sorry if I don't look shocked. The last squier I picked up had a decent neck and body, but *terrible* hardware (tuners as well as bridge) so I'm not at all amazed you are seeing a big improvement.

Rick Auricchio · #4 07-27-2010, 08:08 PM

Did you put the old strings back on after the bridge change? That alone could make a huge difference in sustain.

You might ensure that the neck is tightly attached to the body.

Surly · #5 07-27-2010, 08:20 PM

Thanks for the advice and comments guys. I wasn't insinuating that the mass was the problem with the intonation, but that it was a low quality bridge.

electracoyote · #6 07-28-2010, 09:00 AM

This is always an interesting discussion, and I certainly don't mean to insult anyone's intuition or opinion, but only once out of half a dozen experiments have I noticed a (slight) improvement with the addition of a high-mass aftermarket bridge to one of my basses. And I'm still not convinced it was the bridge that made the difference.

YMMV.

SurferJoe46 · #7 07-28-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surly

Tonight I swapped my Squier Classic Vibe's (P-bass) stock high mass bridge with a Fender bridge like the ones which came on an American Series (pre 08). The reason I swapped bridges is because I could not get the Squier to intonate perfectly. So this was sort of a test- with the better bridge I was able to get the intonation right, however I could instantly feel the loss of sustain. This is the second time I have gone from high mass to a "regular" bridge on a bass and have felt that loss. I figured I'd share my experience since nobody else will ever care and I spent some time swapping parts.....

my $.02...

If you discount the intonation problem for a moment - I am very interested in what you felt was the difference in tone-quality-sound with the Hi-Mass bridge verses whatever other bridge you used.

I tried a swap to a Gotoh once from the angle-iron stock Fender and lost a lot of sustain and low tones.

Bear in mind that I need this bass to be boom-ier and lay down a solid thudding low bottom - but I lost a lot of the Low-to-Mids too with the Hi-Mass bridge.

I reinstalled the stock Fender and got it all back. I have to admit the Gotoh was pretty in a 'busy' way to the eyes and sparkled a lot more - but in the end I returned it.

Now - maybe a Gotoh isn't as good as a BA-II, but at this point I am very gun shy of making any bridge changes for fear of losing what I like.

Since the one major improvement that I hear about doesn't seem to affect me - the fact that the bridge adjusters on a stock Fender aren't in grooves or tracks and can slide around - then that might have been a deal MAKER for me - but I don't have that problem either.

Putting two and two together - maybe those who play more aggressively and dig in harder are doing so to extract a lot of pop and sizzle from their tone and technique and therefor can actually benefit from the HM bridge if it also holds the bottom end of the strings in a tighter position.

Frankly - in automotive engine designs the use of a high-mass device on the end of a crankshaft (the harmonic balancer) is there to take OUT the low frequencies that crack the crankshaft if they get into a harmony with a frequency that is destructive to the native crankshaft material. This is why I fail to actually understand why you would want to dampen the low freqs at all - isn't it a bass we play and want the low freqs to be there?

Philbiker · #8 07-28-2010, 09:39 AM

How much sustain do you need? What difference does that make in a real practical musical situation? Heck, most of the time I want less sustain, not more.

darkstorm · #9 07-28-2010, 12:37 PM

Improved sustain, body resonance, and little fuller sound has allways been my experience with high mass bridges compared to thin bent metal ones. The one exception being baddass which adds extra treble zing that I find annoying.

BigOldHarry · #10 07-28-2010, 12:42 PM

The only reason I'm not wild about Fender bridges is that they lack stablity. It is telling that a high-end builder like Lakland uses a low-mass bridge... It is designed so that it is more stable than the traditional old Fender bridges, but is very clearly optimized for sound (has Lakland compromised on their US bass at all? Ever?). So to those who insist a high-mass bridge is important, let me ask: Did you replace the bent-metal bridge on your Lakland? How about your Musicman?

THand · #11 07-28-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

This problem has *nothing* to do with the mass of the bridge - nothing.

The placement of the bridge or the quality - sure. And a Squier with a cheap bridge? Sorry if I don't look shocked. The last squier I picked up had a decent neck and body, but *terrible* hardware (tuners as well as bridge) so I'm not at all amazed you are seeing a big improvement.

Isn't he saying he likes the squier bridge better??

SurferJoe46 · #12 07-28-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

The only reason I'm not wild about Fender bridges is that they lack stablity. It is telling that a high-end builder like Lakland uses a low-mass bridge... It is designed so that it is more stable than the traditional old Fender bridges, but is very clearly optimized for sound (has Lakland compromised on their US bass at all? Ever?). So to those who insist a high-mass bridge is important, let me ask: Did you replace the bent-metal bridge on your Lakland? How about your Musicman?

I think we're on the same wavelength here.

If the bridge has more mass - then naturally it takes more energy input from the strings to make it move (resonate) and then the effect to the body is lost if not severely stifled and then the wood has little or no chance to create that 'tone' that everyone seems to believe comes back from the wood body - again passing through (in this case a higher-than-stock bridge that snuffs some MORE vibrations) and then back to the pickups and into the amp.

I feel a heavier bridge as killing tone in the worst- or muting it seriously- in the best case.

Fender is right with their 'flimsy' bridges, as they can be set into motion a lot easier if they don't act as shock absorbers for the string vibrations.

Heavier-than-stock bridges I feel actually mute the note, tone and sustain of a bass.

electracoyote · #13 07-28-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I feel a heavier bridge as killing tone in the worst- or muting it seriously- in the best case.

Fender is right with their 'flimsy' bridges, as they can be set into motion a lot easier if they don't act as shock absorbers for the string vibrations.

Heavier-than-stock bridges I feel actually mute the note, tone and sustain of a bass.

The more I think about it, the more sense this makes, and it explains my wholey unsatisfying results with high-mass bridges. I prefer the simple bent-L, and now I realize why.

groooooove · #14 07-28-2010, 03:31 PM

i've added high mass bridges to stock fenders, MIA and MIM. i feel like it makes the strings feel more connected to the piece of wood that is the body, in a sort of non-measurable, but-i-know-i-like-it sort of way...

Surly · #15 07-28-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THand

Isn't he saying he likes the squier bridge better??

Well yes and no. For now (and probably a long time!) I'm keeping the Fender bridge (bent metal) since I am better able to adjust everything. I think the Squier bridge, even though it does the job, was lacking quality.

As another note, the reason I have this extra "bent metal" bridge is because I was told that if I swapped the bridge off of my Am Std (replacing the Hi-Mass), that it would give a more "vintage" tone. I ended up putting the hi-mass back on the Am. Std since for some reason I liked the "feel" better.