Steinberger Synapse Intonation

AlonzoMosely · #1 01-30-2011, 09:47 AM

Hello, I have reviewed the set-up articles that are "stickied." I bought a new Synapse "custom" bass. The intonation is off - when the open string and 12th fret harmonic are tuned with an electronic tuner, the 12th fret note and the 24th fret note are significantly flat. Per the set-up articles linked to in this forum and the Steinberger manual, the correction for this is to move the saddle forward, but the saddle is already in the forward-most position, and there are no other adjustments that allow me to shorten the strings. This suggests to me that the bass I received is simply defective. Is there anything I am missing, or do I simply need to return this bass? Thanks for any thoughts.

Slowgypsy · #2 01-30-2011, 09:52 AM

Which string - or - all strings?

SMILEYSIXX · #3 01-30-2011, 10:12 AM

I would say the strings are the problem, not the bass. Although that is very strange... I have a Spirit which is the same tuning system, but my saddles are set back pretty far.

AlonzoMosely · #4 01-30-2011, 10:36 AM

It is all 4 strings. I have the stock strings on, which the manual says are Steinberger light.

I also have some difficulty getting the strings in and out of the receptacle that holds the ball-end. Once the tuning knobs are loosened to the point where they do not move any more forward, I really have to pull and tug to get the ball-end out. So it is making me wonder if my bass is simply out of spec and the whole bridge is just a little too far back - unless it is normal to have to pull and tug a bit to get the strings out.

Slowgypsy · #5 01-30-2011, 02:20 PM

I'm scratching my head on this. The least likely scenario is that the bridge is in the wrong place. These things are CNC positioned... possible, but not where I'd look first. Things that all strings being flat have in common are possibly the tuner? Have you used this tuner with other instruments and it works fine? Did you buy this from a real dealer, or from a Musicians Friend type of place? If from a real dealer I'd give them a call. Also, I'm not familiar with the Synapse headpiece, but just check that the string balls are in their proper place. Another resource is Steinbergerworld.com. There's an active forum there specific to Steinbergers and I''m sure someone there has hands on experience with the Synapse line, which I do not.

BluesWalker · #6 01-30-2011, 02:29 PM

If you purchased it new, I would contact the seller and ask for an exchange or refund. It is not a useable bass in that condition.

I have had a couple of 5-string Synapses, 2 fretted and 1 fretless. I was never able to get all the intonation of all 5 strings set at the same time. This is because of the one piece saddle which doubles as the piezo. You cannot individually adjust each string so you have to find the compromise that best fits you. This was noted as a major drawback to this bass in a Bass Player article a few years ago, which is instructive since that mag rarely has an unkind word about any of the products they review. I wish I had read that review before I went through my 3 Synapses.

Slowgypsy · #7 01-30-2011, 02:47 PM

I just saw a picture of the Synapse Custom bass. Just checking that this is a 4-string with all strings riding on a common saddle?

AlonzoMosely · #8 01-30-2011, 02:59 PM

I bought this online from Sweetwater only because there is no bricks and mortar dealer near me that has these and I specifically wanted the Steinberger for its compactness. I've been checking the intonation against two different tuners, a Boss and a Korg and they are consistent. After several hours of fiddling, I have gotten it somewhat improved from how it arrived, but there is simply a physical limit to moving the saddle forward to adjust for flat notes at the 24th fret. What is an acceptable variation in cents between the open string and the string played on the 12th or 24th fret??

Thanks everyone.

AlonzoMosely · #9 01-30-2011, 02:59 PM

Slowgypsy, yes, confirming that is the model.

Slowgypsy · #10 01-30-2011, 04:16 PM

The short of it is... the intonation of that particular setup will never be quite as accurate as if each saddle were individually adjustable. But that doesn't mean this is a mistake or unplayable... simply the nature of this particular instrument. Intonation would be adjusted so that an acceptable average is reached. And it can be reached... just about every acoustic guitar of quality has a similar saddle arrangement, and is adjusted for a workable average. Of course, if the nature of this instrument doesn't suit you for whatever reason, you'd be well advised to return it because there's nothing broken here that you can fix.

AlonzoMosely · #11 01-30-2011, 05:09 PM

Thanks, I appreciate the comments. I am somewhat of a perfectionist and am trying to determine what is realistically acceptable. I could understand if some strings were sharp at the 24th fret and some flat and I had to simply choose an average. It's just that all of the strings are flat at the 12th and 24th (except possibly the E depending upon saddle height and angle) and it is impossible to make even one string sharp at the 12th or 24th because the saddle and bridge simply cannot be moved any more forward. I really want to love this bass, which is why I asked about an acceptabe deviation in cents so that perhaps I could gather a piece of data that would convince me there is a reason to keep it.

Slowgypsy · #12 01-30-2011, 07:04 PM

It's all about averages. If your open string tuning is dead on, but the 12th fret note is flat... move the open string tuning to be slightly sharp and the fretted note will be less flat, etc, etc. Also, it's one thing to stare at a tuner and see scientifically that a note is either a percentage sharp or flat... but in a real world situation where runs are played and music is made... are there glaringly off tune notes... or does it sound just fine as music? Almost every high end acoustic guitar (Taylor, Martin, Breedlove, etc, etc) has a certain amount of intonation offness. It's the nature of the bridge/saddle design they all share. And yet very well known, talented, successful artists make beautiful music on these "imperfect" instruments. Not meaning to lecture... just trying to present a different way to look at it. But the bottom line is... it's your money, so if this instrument has a "fatal" design flaw for you, just return it and move on. What you're bumping up against with this instrument seems to be inherent in its design.

AlonzoMosely · #13 01-30-2011, 07:12 PM

Thanks, appreciate the perspective (I love lectures - great way to get info!) and quick replies.

Chrisk-K · #14 01-30-2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

What is an acceptable variation in cents between the open string and the string played on the 12th or 24th fret??

For me, close to zero although I'll never achieve zero because of gravity

I love Steinberger basses. The reason why I haven't bought a Synapse Custom is because of its bridge. I want to be able to move individual saddles to intonate.

F-Clef-Jef · #15 01-31-2011, 10:44 AM

Are you sure the strings are installed correctly? The strings have a smaller ball on one end (the zero-fret end) and a the ball that goes into the tuner is slightly larger. If you turn them around (at least on an old style Steinberger) the zero-fret end ball will not seat into the holder and the string will be slightly "short". I've seen a few Steinbergers strung up incorrectly. This info is for an old style Steinie, I haven't had any experience with the Synapse, but I believe they string up the same. Good luck!

BluesWalker · #16 02-01-2011, 07:50 PM

It is more money, but look into a Status Streamline, a small headless bass that is of much higher quality than the new Steinbergers.

ixlramp · #17 02-04-2011, 03:44 PM

Intonating by tuning the open and the 12th fret harmonic can be problematic since the open note is often out of tune with fret 1. Also the 2nd harmonic is not necessarily in tune with the open note, depending on string stiffness, it is usually very slightly sharp.

The strings should have a kink at the nut and leave the nut in a straight line towards the saddle. If not push down on the string either side of the nut. This may bring the open note in tune with fret 1.

A more precise way to intonate is to tune fret 1, then play up the frets, observing the tuning of every, perhaps, 2nd, 3rd or 4th fret. This way you tune the frets, which are more important than the open note if you can't get that in tune to fret 1.

Do you have a one piece saddle? If so it's possible you can only get 2 out of 4 perfectly intonated, they really should have individual saddles for each string.

If all else fails find stiffer or larger gauge strings, these require the saddle further back.