Strange almost chorus-like effect

regularmk · #1 05-04-2010, 01:02 PM

I recently restrung my Ibanez EDB600, which I've had now for about 7 years. Almost immediately I notice that both the E and A string emit a weird chorus-like tone (amped or not) that intensifies the further up the neck I play.
After the twelfth fret or so, the sound is pretty much unbearable. So what did I do? I adjusted the truss rod, the saddles, the pickups, and put on a brand new set of strings.
Still the same problem. I'm going nuts trying to figure this out!

stflbn · #2 05-04-2010, 01:10 PM

Push down fairly hard on the strings where they pass over the bridge saddles (contact point). If you look at them you'll likely notice they're curving over the contact point rather than making a good angled break over the saddle. Light strings bend easier so it's usually not a problem with them, but heavy strings need 'help' making good contact and a good angle over the saddle. Low B strings are evey more necessary to do this to.

This, or strings being to close to the pickups are really the two main culprits of what you're describing.

.

regularmk · #3 05-04-2010, 01:28 PM

I just raised the action, lowered the pickups and checked the saddles. I pressed really hard on either side of the saddle to see if I could get a better angle or if they'd slide in better. It almost appears that the strings are too large to even properly fit into the saddle at all, actually. But they're just regular slinky Ernie Ball's, seems odd that they'd give me this much trouble.

big90sbasshorns · #4 05-04-2010, 01:38 PM

I'm going to guess it's the strings resonating between the tuning pegs and the nut (this has happened to me before)...A scrunchy around the headstock to dampen the strings will stop it.

stflbn · #5 05-04-2010, 01:46 PM

Another possible solution...

Loosen each of those strings and make sure that they did not get twisted when being put on. Loosen enough that the ball end of the string is loose enough to freely twist and make sure that the string is not twisted. Then bring each string back up to tension. I've seen this happen before by people wrapping the strings around the tuners prior to 'save time' tightening strings. "Can" end up with the string twisted when 'can' also cause your chorusing effect.

regularmk · #6 05-04-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big90sbasshorns

I'm going to guess it's the strings resonating between the tuning pegs and the nut (this has happened to me before)...A scrunchy around the headstock to dampen the strings will stop it.

I just loosened the strings and shoved a thick rag underneath them on the headstock, no change in tone whatsoever. Was this problem specific to a certain area on the neck for you, too? I can imagine it drove you mad!

mongo2 · #7 05-04-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regularmk

I just raised the action, lowered the pickups

What's the distance between the bottom of the strings and the top of the pickups?

regularmk · #8 05-04-2010, 01:52 PM

I've offically entered neophyte territory here. How do I know if the string is twisted? (if this is what's going on I'm going to feel supremely silly)

regularmk · #9 05-04-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongo2

What's the distance between the bottom of the strings and the top of the pickups?

I don't have a ruler handy but I'd say I'm more than a third of an inch distant now.

mikezimmerman · #10 05-04-2010, 02:00 PM

The magnetic field of the pickups can interfere with the strings and give exactly the effect you're describing. Some strings are more sensitive to it than others, and the extra highs on a brand new set of strings make it more obvious.

Try lowering the pickups as low as they can go to see if it goes away, then you can slowly raise them back up.

Mike

groooooove · #11 05-04-2010, 02:01 PM

the pickups probably have nothing to do with this.

it is a saddle/string thing, its happened to my B strings before, but i dont remember what fixed it..

how long has it been since you strung it up? it may be adjusting to the setup..and then will need one more tweaking..then it will behave. possibly.

stflbn · #12 05-04-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regularmk

I've offically entered neophyte territory here. How do I know if the string is twisted? (if this is what's going on I'm going to feel supremely silly)

Loosen the string enough (by loosening tuners) that it's 1/4 or so outside of the bridge hole so that you can grab the ball end and wiggle it back and forth and make sure that it's loose in the hole and not under tension. If it's loose in the bridge hole and you can wiggle it back and forth by the ball end, then it likely will have 'untwisted' itself by then.

Bring the string back up to normal tuning tension and see if it still chorus's.

Tougher to make sure of when stringing through the body of basses. Personally I prefer bridges with quick release slots, which also make it VERY easy to loosen a string, pop the ball end out and let it go loose to make sure it's not twisted, then tighten it back up.

regularmk · #13 05-04-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

the pickups probably have nothing to do with this.

it is a saddle/string thing, its happened to my B strings before, but i dont remember what fixed it..

how long has it been since you strung it up? it may be adjusting to the setup..and then will need one more tweaking..then it will behave. possibly.

Just restrung it today, actually. I had the exact same problem with the set of strings I had put on the other day (figured replacing them would solve the problem, might should've tried different strings this time around)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stflbn

Loosen the string enough (by loosening tuners) that it's 1/4 or so outside of the bridge hole so that you can grab the ball end and wiggle it back and forth and make sure that it's loose in the hole and not under tension. If it's loose in the bridge hole and you can wiggle it back and forth by the ball end, then it likely will have 'untwisted' itself by then.

Bring the string back up to normal tuning tension and see if it still chorus's.

Tougher to make sure of when stringing through the body of basses. Personally I prefer bridges with quick release slots, which also make it VERY easy to loosen a string, pop the ball end out and let it go loose to make sure it's not twisted, then tighten it back up.

Loosened the strings up real good, but they didn't seem especially eager to flip into a more comfortable position. Still chorusing.

Gotta agree with ya about quick release slots. This ordeal would've been significantly more terrible if I was constantly removing the strings entirely.

regularmk · #14 05-04-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

The magnetic field of the pickups can interfere with the strings and give exactly the effect you're describing. Some strings are more sensitive to it than others, and the extra highs on a brand new set of strings make it more obvious.

Try lowering the pickups as low as they can go to see if it goes away, then you can slowly raise them back up.

Mike

Got the pickups snuggled down as low as they would go, and raised the action of the e string uncomfortably high. No change, other than volume.

mikezimmerman · #15 05-04-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regularmk

Got the pickups snuggled down as low as they would go, and raised the action of the e string uncomfortably high. No change, other than volume.

Gotcha--it was worth a try, since I just had the magnetic chorusing thing happen with one of my basses.

regularmk · #16 05-04-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

Gotcha--it was worth a try, since I just had the magnetic chorusing thing happen with one of my basses.

Totally, bud. I appreciate the help!

And go figure, this problem was addressed 6 years ago, and there was no apparent solution then, either.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/archiv.../t-150182.html

I'll probably shell out another 20 bucks for a different set of strings before I start recording some tracks. Maybe some flatwounds will avoid this altogether.

mongo2 · #17 05-04-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regularmk

I'll probably shell out another 20 bucks for a different set of strings before I start recording some tracks. Maybe some flatwounds will avoid this altogether.

Given all you've tried, I agree this would be the next step.

johnboy65 · #18 05-04-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regularmk

I just raised the action, lowered the pickups and checked the saddles. I pressed really hard on either side of the saddle to see if I could get a better angle or if they'd slide in better. It almost appears that the strings are too large to even properly fit into the saddle at all, actually. But they're just regular slinky Ernie Ball's, seems odd that they'd give me this much trouble.

Did you change string gauges?
Also, a weird thing that I have had happen is a loose intonation/saddle spring can get an overtone in it.

regularmk · #19 05-04-2010, 04:03 PM

Nah, I didn't. Wish I had, though. Might have saved myself some moolah.

testing1two · #20 05-04-2010, 04:37 PM

The chorusing effect is fairly common and is primarily caused by a bad/ruined string where the relationship between the string core and outer wrap is compromised. This can happen if the string is cut without bending the end at a right angle but more commonly it happens when torsional (twisting) force is applied to the string as it's being wound on the post. Many folks measure the string, cut the end and then make the first wrap around the post by hand (i.e. not turning the key, just pulling the slack around the post). and in doing so they twist the string. The twisting can ruin the string and produce the dreaded chorus effect. The solution: replace the offending strings and use the tuning key from the very start being careful not to twist.

And while I certainly don't question the results of others who have posted here, I would generally try to avoid pressing the strings into the saddles (i.e. to "kink" the strings) to achieve a sharper break angle over the saddle. As always, IMO, YMMV, FWIW, LMAO.