String Height question set up on Music Man

[RayFox]

I have a Music Man Sterling HS, which I love. I am trying to set the string height to the factory specs. On this bass, the truss rod adjusts the string height and that the factory string height should be measured at 3/32 from the bottom of the string to the 12th fret, or 12th fret to bottom of the string.My question is this: Do I measure from the "fret bar" at the 12th fret or the fret itself on the finger board?

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by RayFox

I have a Music Man Sterling HS, which I love. I am trying to set the string height to the factory specs. On this bass, the truss rod adjusts the string height and that the factory string height should be measured at 3/32 from the bottom of the string to the 12th fret, or 12th fret to bottom of the string.My question is this: Do I measure from the "fret bar" at the 12th fret or the fret itself on the finger board?

No, the trussrod is not used to set the string height. Use the bridge saddle height adjusters for that. And you measure from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string.

[RayFox]

According to Music Man Website, the action is adjusted by using the truss rod wheel.

[zenrad]

I start by setting mine to have between .008" - .010" relief measured at the 6th fret using the 4th string as a straight edge fretted at the 1st and 12th frets.

I then measure from the top of the 12th fret to the underside of each string to set the string height, which for me ranges from around 4/64" moving to 5/64" give or take, from the G to the E string. At that point adjusting the truss rod will show string height differences, but I never use the truss rod to adjust string height, regardless of what the EBMM web site says.

Every bass is different though, I know my EBMM Sterling HS needs a bit more relief than my Sterling H, but I like my necks as straight as possible without fret rattle and my action low with no buzzing unless I really dig in. If you set the string height to 3/32" then minor relief changes in the neck won't be much of a problem.

[mikezimmerman]

The truss rod wheel adjusts the neck relief (the amount of curvature which provides clearance in the middle of the neck for string vibration), which is one component of the action. The FAQ at How do I set up my Music Man bass? specifies in the first paragraph how to set the truss rod to get the right amount of relief ("There should be no more than the thickness of a business card between the string and the frets [when fretting at the 2nd and 12th frets]."

In the third paragraph, is says that "Factory String heights for a 4 string bass are: Bass side 3/32" to 7/64" Treble side: 5/64" to 7/64" from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string.". It clearly says from the "top of the fret to the bottom of the string", not to the fretboard, which should answer your original question. However, string height is adjusted using the bridge saddles, after you've set the relief correctly.

[RocThrower]

I purchased a used Stingray a few months ago, and visited the Ernie Ball site for setup guidelines. I was very surprised that they mentioned almost all string height can be adjusted via the truss rod. I find this very misleading, and someone who may be new to setups could really screw up their $1000+ instrument if they didn't know any better.
OP: The truss rod is for setting relief and the bridge saddles will adjust string height.

I use the Fender bass setup guide as a starting point on both my Stingray and Jazz bass, and tweak it from there.

[mikezimmerman]

They don't "mention that almost all string height can be adjusted via the truss rod"--where do you see that? The tell you to use the truss rod to adjust the relief, and specify what the relief should be set at. Then then tell you what the string height should be set at, but don't tell you how to adjust it.

[zenrad]

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

They don't "mention that almost all string height can be adjusted via the truss rod"--where do you see that? The tell you to use the truss rod to adjust the relief, and specify what the relief should be set at. Then then tell you what the string height should be set at, but don't tell you how to adjust it.

Quoted from the EBMM Web site

"First of all - almost all of the adjustments to string height can be made with the truss rod. Turn clockwise to raise the fretboard (resulting in lower action), counter clockwise to lower it. The factory string height for our basses is about 3/32" or 2.4mm between the bottom of the string to the top of the fret on both the E and G strings at the 12th fret. The G string can be slightly lower due to the fact that it is the smallest string. Of course, tightening or loosening the trussrod affects the bow of the neck, which is how desired action is generally best achieved."

Could you tell me Music Man's StingRay factory settings for relief, string height, and pickup height?

[RocThrower]

First sentence here: Could you tell me Music Man's StingRay factory settings for relief, string height, and pickup height?

This was the information I was looking for when setting it up.

[mikezimmerman]

Originally Posted by zenrad

Quoted from the EBMM Web site

"First of all - almost all of the adjustments to string height can be made with the truss rod. Turn clockwise to raise the fretboard (resulting in lower action), counter clockwise to lower it. The factory string height for our basses is about 3/32" or 2.4mm between the bottom of the string to the top of the fret on both the E and G strings at the 12th fret. The G string can be slightly lower due to the fact that it is the smallest string. Of course, tightening or loosening the trussrod affects the bow of the neck, which is how desired action is generally best achieved."

Could you tell me Music Man's StingRay factory settings for relief, string height, and pickup height?

Interesting--that's not what the setup guide I linked to from the EB site says. Too many guides and FAQs!

[zenrad]

Yes, there are a few differnt explanations in their FAQ section.

[electracoyote]

Mike is on it folks. Re-read his posts.

The truss adjusts relief, which is a small contributer to overall action. After the relief is correctly set, the majority of your action setting comes from the saddle height.

Another factor that has a small but measurable affect on action is the nut slot depth. Improperly or shallow slotted nuts cause all nature of tuning and intonation problems, and will cause your action to be ever-so-slightly higher.

But neck relief is a small part of overall action. I'd say saddle height and neck-to-pocket relationship (with a bolt on) are the biggies for action.

A good set-up takes all factors into account.

[RocThrower]

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

Too many guides and FAQs!

I totally agree!

[walterw]

actually, neck relief is a big part of setting the action, in the sense that if it's off, you won't get the rest to fall in line no matter what you do.

the idea is that the neck should be almost straight (the aforementioned business card-sized gap) first. only then can you measure and set the saddles, closer for low action and farther for higher action.

maybe music man is going on the premise that the saddles won't change from their factory setting, while the neck will (temperature, humidity, etc.), so the neck is what the owner will need to adjust from time to time.

this makes sense, but you don't want to tweak the rod and then measure the result by string height, because that includes too many factors. truss rod adjustments are checked by using a straightedge (like the string itself) to see the size of the gap.

[dustybottoms]

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

The truss rod wheel adjusts the neck relief (the amount of curvature which provides clearance in the middle of the neck for string vibration), which is one component of the action. The FAQ at How do I set up my Music Man bass? specifies in the first paragraph how to set the truss rod to get the right amount of relief ("There should be no more than the thickness of a business card between the string and the frets [when fretting at the 2nd and 12th frets]."

In the third paragraph, is says that "Factory String heights for a 4 string bass are: Bass side 3/32" to 7/64" Treble side: 5/64" to 7/64" from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string.". It clearly says from the "top of the fret to the bottom of the string", not to the fretboard, which should answer your original question. However, string height is adjusted using the bridge saddles, after you've set the relief correctly.

I have my Sterling by MM set up EXATLY like this and my E string buzzes all the way up and down the neck. I have the Action even a little high. The only way I can seem to remedy this is to raise the E string saddle way up then it throws the radius way off. I'm at a loss. Any suggestions? The relief is set to a biz card thickness at the 7th fret with a capo on 2 and a finger on 12. I even tried a credit car thickness because I read that too. Still buzzes.

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by walterw

maybe music man is going on the premise that the saddles won't change from their factory setting, while the neck will (temperature, humidity, etc.), so the neck is what the owner will need to adjust from time to time.

I was thinking the same thing. It's really shortsighted of EBMM to make such an statement though, especially if you wanted to use a string gauge or brand other than the factory Slinkys. It is equally presumptuous to assume that the factory setup is the right setup for all players.

I'm sure the right info exists somewhere amidst the forums and FAQ's but I would think that EBMM would put all the factory setup specs and a proper setup guide in plain view.

For those who have not seen, here is a link to a video by John Carruthers that does a nice job of explaining a bass setup in 4 parts: Setting Up Your Bass Guitar: Adjusting The Truss Rod (Step 1 of 4) - YouTube

[dustybottoms]

So I broke down and took it to a music store that my friend owns and he has been working on guitars for 20 years. His response to my problem was "there is no exact measurement that works on a guitar. it just depends on the guitar". He told me to shim the neck pitch, add relief, and readjust the saddles to desired action. I feel like its about that same place as it was after doing all of that. Makes me wonder how much is really done at a guitar shop when you take it in for a set-up. haha.

[Lo-E]

Zenrad and MikeZimmerman both gave the correct procedure and several other posters concurred.

I'm not sure why MM would make a statement like that as it's a pretty cavalier way to do a setup, but if I were you, I'd ignore that advice (that MM posted about using the truss rod to adjust string height) and instead follow Zenrad's procedure to the letter.

I've followed the same procedure, more or less, for twenty years and it's never let me down.

[JTE]

It seems the reason so many folks think the truss rod adjusts string height is because IF you leave everything the same, in most cases the only reason the action changes is due to the neck moving. So, if you adjust the truss rod it SHOULD bring things back to where they were. Therefore, IF the action is wrong for you ONLY because the neck's relief changed, then the truss rod is the correct way to adjust it.

But, it's a huge disservice to people just learning this stuff to say "almost all of the adjustments to string height can be made with the truss rod." That clearly assumes that the saddles and nut already are in the correct position. Now I haven't touched the saddles on any of my basses in two years (because I've not changed string gauges or brand in that time), and my Precision hasn't had the bridge saddles touched in about six years. But the necks move with the weather and so when the action gets wrong, I check the neck relief and adjust the rod. That solves the problems for me.

BUT it's vital for people to understand how a bass works. The truss rod ONLY adjusts the neck relief. It has a side effect of altering the string height at certain places on th neck, but it doesn't change the saddle height of course. And the problem is that if you don't know what proper relief is for you and your bass, then you'll likely wind up messing things up trying to lower action when the relief is right.

So, when setting up an instrument that's new to you, or with a new set of strings (i.e. different gauge, different material, different brand - don't assume nickle Ernie Ball 45/65/85/105 will need the same setup for you as DR Sunbeams in the same gauges!) check the relief and the nut and get them right for what they do. Once the relief is where you want it for how YOU play THIS bass, then use the saddles to adjust the action.

String measurements are from the bottom of the string to the top of the fretwire. And factory specs are only a guideline for a setup that's going to allow for an instrument to be shipped all over without too much change needed, and to satisfy a wide range of players. Personal setup can be WAY different. For example, I find Fender's specs to be very awkward to play. My basses are set up right now with only about 1/64" or less relief (measured at the 7th fret and fretting the E string at the first and last frets to serve as a straightedge).

John
John