Strings popping out of the nut on Jazz Bass. Possible tuning machine issue?

[not_jason]

I have an older Jazz Bass (Squier, JV). I have a problem with it where the E and A string pop out of the nut when I play them too hard. Conventional wisdom is to blame this on the nut, but I'm not sure it's the sole culprit. The posts on the tuning machines on this bass are so long, that the string leaves the tuning machine, and meets the nut at a fairly straight angle. That is to say, there is very little downward force being applied to the strings over the nut. On the D and G strings, which have a tree, I have no issues whatsoever. My question is this: Given my explanation of the problem, does it make sense to replace the tuning machines in an attempt to fix it? If yes, who makes good tuners with shorter posts? I'll post pictures soon, so illustrate exactly what I'm talking about, and what my set up is right now.

[Steveaux]

Your strings are wound on the tuners upside-down.

[not_jason]

As promised, the first is a picture of my Jazz Bass, which is the one with the problem. Unfortunately, I lost track of what I was doing, and neglected to include the A-string's tuner in this picture. Hopefully, though, you can see what I'm talking about at least a little bit with the E string.



For the sake of comparison, this is a shot of my P-bass, which has Ping tuners. It has no such issues.

[Steveaux]

There aren't enough wraps to force the strings down.

[not_jason]

Originally Posted by Steveaux

Your strings are wound on the tuners upside-down.

Hopefully my pictures, as well as some basic assumed faith in a fellow bass player, have disproved this theory.

Looking at the first picture, you might be tempted to suggest I wind more string around the post in order to lower the string. I hate doing that for a handful of reasons, plus, it hasn't really shown itself to be effective. That is what I've done on the A string, to make it sit as low as possible, and I have to periodically loosen the tension and reset it, as it has a tendency to want to climb. The beveled indents at the center of the post make it nearly impossible to do very much to those ends.

[Steveaux]

Originally Posted by not_jason

Hopefully my pictures, as well as some basic assumed faith in a fellow bass player, have disproved this theory.

Looking at the first picture, you might be tempted to suggest I wind more string around the post in order to lower the string. I hate doing that for a handful of reasons, plus, it hasn't really shown itself to be effective. That is what I've done on the A string, to make it sit as low as possible, and I have to periodically loosen the tension and reset it, as it has a tendency to want to climb. The beveled indents at the center of the post make it nearly impossible to do very much to those ends.

Sorry ... I've just seen it too many times.

With the cheaper, relatively straight-posted tuners, multiple wraps is really the only way I've found to get and keep them low.

[not_jason]

True though that may be, I'd still rather change my hardware than compromise my set-up preferences. None of my other basses have any problem with me wrapping the string around the post only a few times. Slightly-collectible though this bass may be, I have no qualms about changing the parts to make it more functional.

So I guess my question is, what tuners would people suggest that wouldn't be prone to such failings?

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by not_jason

True though that may be, I'd still rather change my hardware than compromise my set-up preferences. None of my other basses have any problem with me wrapping the string around the post only a few times. Slightly-collectible though this bass may be, I have no qualms about changing the parts to make it more functional.

So I guess my question is, what tuners would people suggest that wouldn't be prone to such failings?

The tuners you have are designed to have a minimum of 3 wraps around the posts, winding downwards. It's not a failling - it works well if you use it the way it was designed. If you don't like this you should use a different tuner.

[EagleMoon]

Why would you not want to wrap more string around the post? I just don't get that. That is the way they were designed.

[202dy]

This is how the guitar should be strung. Use a minimum of three wraps on the post. You can wrap the entire length of the post to the headstock if necessary.

[ProfGumby]

You have at least 2 easy choices as I see it.

1) use at least 3 wraps around the post to create enough downward pressure. Whatever your reasoning is not to, does not buck the laws of simple physics or the instruments design. I would not call it a failing, it is just the way it is designed.

2) add a 3 string tree like those from Hipshot -
http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/b...deshipshot.htm
(The one on the bottom left)

And here are more choices -
http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/b...gguidesbar.htm
http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/b...idesfender.htm (The one on the right)

That or replace the tuners like those on your other bass.

[Steveaux]

Originally Posted by not_jason

True though that may be, I'd still rather change my hardware than compromise my set-up preferences. None of my other basses have any problem with me wrapping the string around the post only a few times. Slightly-collectible though this bass may be, I have no qualms about changing the parts to make it more functional.

So I guess my question is, what tuners would people suggest that wouldn't be prone to such failings?

Sperzel ?

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by not_jason

True though that may be, I'd still rather change my hardware than compromise my set-up preferences. None of my other basses have any problem with me wrapping the string around the post only a few times. Slightly-collectible though this bass may be, I have no qualms about changing the parts to make it more functional.

So I guess my question is, what tuners would people suggest that wouldn't be prone to such failings?

The wrapping around the tuning post don't change the set up of your bass at all. You would rather spen ~100 dollars on a new set of tuners than 20 and 10 minutes of changing string?

[walterw]

you: "my car stalls out every time i start from a dead stop."

us: "don't start out in third gear like that. start out in first gear like the car was designed for."

you: "but i have my reasons for starting out in third gear."

us:

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by not_jason

True though that may be, I'd still rather change my hardware than compromise my set-up preferences.

I think you should just toss out the defective bass, instead of learning to string it properly. I have, in my possession, three basses with the same style tuning gears. I have never had an issue like the one you're complaining of.

[not_jason]

While your advice is solid, I can't help but feel a little bit flamed. I sincerely wasn't trying to be dismissive of anyone's advice.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by not_jason

Hopefully my pictures, as well as some basic assumed faith in a fellow bass player, have disproved this theory.

Looking at the first picture, you might be tempted to suggest I wind more string around the post in order to lower the string. I hate doing that for a handful of reasons, plus, it hasn't really shown itself to be effective. That is what I've done on the A string, to make it sit as low as possible, and I have to periodically loosen the tension and reset it, as it has a tendency to want to climb. The beveled indents at the center of the post make it nearly impossible to do very much to those ends.

I don't know of an easy way to say this, but it really doesn't matter whether you LIKE fewer wraps. You have strung the bass incorrectly. Physics overrules individual foibles such as wanting fewer string wraps.

You need to leave a lot more string so that you can bend the end 90 degrees, insert it into the tuner, then both lock down the end with over-wraps AND wind the string down the tuners so that you increase the break angle ovet the nut. The current method is incorrect.

Your stated preference is to string the bass in a way that prevents ANY tuners from working correctly. You can either do it correctly or keep having the problem. The solution is easy...if you want to solve your problem, get new strings and install them correctly.

No flame - fact.

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by not_jason

While your advice is solid, I can't help but feel a little bit flamed. I sincerely wasn't trying to be dismissive of anyone's advice.

But you were dismissive. Everyone's advice is to string the bass correctly.

[not_jason]

Alright. Alright. I get it. I take this forum, as a knowledge base very seriously. I know that there is a lot of experience on this forum that trumps whatever I can bring to the table. if the majority of the replies insist that I'm doing something wrong, then I'm not going to be so foolish as to argue.

However, please be respectful that the way I do it isn't just something arbitrary that I came up with in order to spite the powers that be. I was taught how to string my instruments by people with more experience than me. Over time I tweaked my methods, but it's basically the way it was taught to me. One wrap around the post might seem like a bit too little (indeed I normally go for at least 2, that was likely a mistake), but I have been told by more than a few people that fewer wraps has advantages (as opposed to several). Perhaps I took that lesson to far? Perhaps it was just bad advice? In any case, like I said, I didn't just make it up for the purpose of thumbing my nose at convention.

And this is not to challenge the knowledge base of this forum, but rather to further defend myself (for I feel like I've been backed into a corner): I've owned, and regularly strung 5 basses. Of them, this is the only one that gives me any sort of issue like this. I string all of them with the same methods. If you apply the same method 5 times, and only get a problem 1 time, it's not hard to assume (however falsely) that the equipment is to blame. So please, take it easy on me.

[Renaissance]

OK, I'm curious. Why don't you want more wraps? If the string rides up after being set in place, doesn't that create a tuning problem?