Tension Free Necks

[BackToTheGroove]

Perhaps this is known my almost all, but I thought this site would have plenty to see to keep some up late at night.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoID=53528971

Tension Free Neck - Explained by it's Inventor Dave Bunker

The Tension Free neck puts very little stress on the wood and instead of compressing the neck from one end to the other it just pushes the neck up to forward bow or back to back bow in a simple fulcrum method with the rod being pinned through the neck at the 17th fret and adjusted with a screw at the 22nd plus fret.

My attitude has always been since that truss rod necks are old technology in that while they can put back bow on a neck they do it at considerable tone loss and stress which can cause everything from twisting to constantly being out of tune. This was very graphically shown to me by top Boeing engineers who assisted me in the design of the Tension free neck. All wood is very unstable which makes it very unpredictable when stress is applied to it.

Ibanez at first was worried about the Tension Free but after Mr. Hoshino inspected and tested it they went with it. The ATK bass [also made by PBC for Ibanez] won bass of the year in 1994 in the retail/wholesale magazine partly because of the [Tension Free] neck design.

The Tension Free neck was harder to adjust on the USRG20 [and USRG30] guitars because of the locking nut being mounted on the neck end instead of the headstock as is common on Ibanez guitars. I still get lots of calls from customers who bought and play the instruments and in 90+ % of the cases they really like the instruments. The only thing I felt lacked about the Tension Free neck idea was people not fully understandings not only how it worked but how to properly adjust it. If people call me, usually in minutes they have their necks adjusted and are as happy as lambs.

One thing that impressed me at the Bensalem, PA Ibanez facility were the mass number of standard truss rod type necks which were replaced by Ibanez (literally thousands) because of twist and other reasons. Ibanez I'll state again, is one of the finest company's I have ever had the pleasure to do business with. Their inspection and quality control far surpasses any of the other company's. - Dave Bunker, Pres. Bunker Guitars

[darkstorm]

Dont like it. A well made neck with qaulity two way truss rod is still best imo. To include the headstock being glued solidly wo the rest of the neck instead of bolted on. Better sound vibration for the instrument. Also it looks like you cant adjust the truss rod on those while its on the instrument. Horrible design imo. One should be able to just lightly loosen couple strings, adjust truss rod. Retune to see if adjustment is as wanted. If not, lightly loosen the 2 strings again and do the final tweak of truss rod. Then just retune the strings and play.

I havent tried this version of tension free neck. But another that was being advertised heavy yrs ago. Had the worst string thru body and neck vibration transfer Ive ever come across. No sense of any felt vibrations thru body and neck when played.

I'll take a high qaulity glued together neck with high qaulity regular two way truss rod adjusted at headstock end. Or one of them trussrod free graphite necks.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Dont like it. A well made neck with qaulity two way truss rod is still best imo. To include the headstock being glued solidly wo the rest of the neck instead of bolted on. Better sound vibration for the instrument. Also it looks like you cant adjust the truss rod on those while its on the instrument. Horrible design imo. One should be able to just lightly loosen couple strings, adjust truss rod. Retune to see if adjustment is as wanted. If not, lightly loosen the 2 strings again and do the final tweak of truss rod. Then just retune the strings and play.

I havent tried this version of tension free neck. But another that was being advertised heavy yrs ago. Had the worst string thru body and neck vibration transfer Ive ever come across. No sense of any felt vibrations thru body and neck when played.

I'll take a high qaulity glued together neck with high qaulity regular two way truss rod adjusted at headstock end. Or one of them trussrod free graphite necks.

What earlier tension-free neck did you try?

Riis

[darkstorm]

zoober...> I dont remember the brand name, they where being advertised in the late 90's to early 2000's. In magazines like bass player ands guitar player. Used some kind of T shaped truss rod from what I remember. The neck was adjusted in regular manner and did not come apart at headstock like this new version. Nor did it have side of neck screws or end of neck adjustment on its back like this new version. Maker advertised that all tension was on the truss rod with none on the neck. I stopped seen any advertisement for them in the early 2000's. If I remember right one might compare them to the aluminum neck kramer from the 70's. But less metal and wrapped in wood neck.

[vibhas_2310]

Is this the same design thats being used on the Henman-Bevelaqua Basses ???

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

zoober...> I dont remember the brand name, they where being advertised in the late 90's to early 2000's. In magazines like bass player ands guitar player. Used some kind of T shaped truss rod from what I remember. The neck was adjusted in regular manner and did not come apart at headstock like this new version. Nor did it have side of neck screws or end of neck adjustment on its back like this new version. Maker advertised that all tension was on the truss rod with none on the neck. I stopped seen any advertisement for them in the early 2000's. If I remember right one might compare them to the aluminum neck kramer from the 70's. But less metal and wrapped in wood neck.

Okay, thanks for the clarification....we're talking two different systems here.

The Bunker tension-free neck is a whole 'nother animal. The system you're describing sounds more like the Kramer / Vaccaro T bar aluminum neck. The concepts are similar: string tension is borne by the internal steel structure and not the wood components. We can go one step further and say the same thing for the Modulus Genesis designs where a composite T is utilized. Its kinda neat because it allows softer, non-traditional woods to be incorporated in the neck construction.

I've owned and dismantled a couple of Bunkers in the past few years. The entire string tension is carried by a single internal rectangular steel bar. You could, quite literally, remove the wood from the 1st > 19th frets and the bass would stay in tune. As the neck and fingerboard are essentially under no stress, necessary relief is "artificially" introduced by torquing the wood neck in relationship to the steel bar. Complicated to describe but it functions well. Access is through a small port located in the body rear amongst the neck mount screws. IIRC, the Hen / Bev operates in a similar manner.

[mongo2]

So what they actually are is a neck made of a tension bearing rectangular steel bar surrounded by a sleeve made of wood?

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by mongo2

So what they actually are is a neck made of a tension bearing rectangular steel bar surrounded by a sleeve made of wood?

Yes, that's an accurate description. The neck doesn't begin to see any stress until the 19th fret where a transverse anchor pin passes through both the neck and internal bar. If you look at the treble side of a tension-free neck, you'll see a narrow access port which accomodates the longarm of a hex key.

Riis

[crusie]

hmm to me it sounds like a plazebo product - it may or may not work - but the one where he bends the wood for us to listen to how wood sounds with and without tension- he's actually damping the wood by putting pressure on with his hands... I mean of course the wood wont ring when it's against flesh - it's like a fluffy pillow.

sorry but I just don't buy it. I need better proof than this or some way to test it out before buying.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by crusie

hmm to me it sounds like a plazebo product - it may or may not work - but the one where he bends the wood for us to listen to how wood sounds with and without tension- he's actually damping the wood by putting pressure on with his hands... I mean of course the wood wont ring when it's against flesh - it's like a fluffy pillow.

sorry but I just don't buy it. I need better proof than this or some way to test it out before buying.

Good luck on both counts. I will say that the two I owned lived up to his claims but not necessarily the hype.

I wouldn't mind finding another Bunker / PBC fiver to complete the stable.

Riis

[Raccio14]

So why did this system lose popularity? Is it not as practical or as good as the standard truss rod?
I mean, it sounds kind of cool. I for one, was looking to buy an ATK in theory, and this system would have only been yet another thing that would be selling it to me.

Of course, unless I'm wrong and it just sucked.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Raccio14

So why did this system lose popularity? Is it not as practical or as good as the standard truss rod?
I mean, it sounds kind of cool. I for one, was looking to buy an ATK in theory, and this system would have only been yet another thing that would be selling it to me.

Of course, unless I'm wrong and it just sucked.

I never considered them to be that popular to start with. Other than the occasional US ATK, when was the last time you ran across a Bunker tension-free neck? The necks ring true as demonstrated with virtually no dead spots. In terms of design & construction, its a vast departure from the norm but so was Phil Kubicki's 37 layer laminate neck and Geoff Gould's work with composites....neat but necessarily for everybody.

Riis

[Raccio14]

I mean, neat and unique is cool, but it doesn't really tell why the design would die off. If it's a good design, wouldn't it gain a foothold in the market, slowly but surely? I just feel that there had to be something wrong with it if it's disappeared lately.

[Diogenes]

The TFN is an interesting concept but just like most innovations I've seen with a list of theoretical advantages, they just don't mean much to me. I'm more than satisfied with my basses.

[raymondl3]

Originally Posted by Raccio14

I mean, neat and unique is cool, but it doesn't really tell why the design would die off. If it's a good design, wouldn't it gain a foothold in the market, slowly but surely? I just feel that there had to be something wrong with it if it's disappeared lately.

It's probably not cost effective. It looks a little complicated to adjust from what I've seen. I think the necks have to be rather large to house the rod, don't they? Every Bunker and PBC I've seen has baseball bat profiled, air craft carrier neck.

[IntrepidCellist]

Originally Posted by Raccio14

I mean, neat and unique is cool, but it doesn't really tell why the design would die off. If it's a good design, wouldn't it gain a foothold in the market, slowly but surely? I just feel that there had to be something wrong with it if it's disappeared lately.

Musicians are conservative :shrug:

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Raccio14

I mean, neat and unique is cool, but it doesn't really tell why the design would die off. If it's a good design, wouldn't it gain a foothold in the market, slowly but surely? I just feel that there had to be something wrong with it if it's disappeared lately.

Well, he apparently builds & sells enough to keep the business running. He has gained a foothold in the market...so has Carl Thompson, for that fact, but you'll never see their basses on the wall in Guitar Center. The new Hen / Bev bass incorporates a good deal of the "old" TFN technology.

If you really want to learn firsthand, call Dave Bunker...I've spoken to him a couple times myself. Heckuva nice guy, too.

Riis

[raymondl3]

Depends on what you mean by "foothold in the market." If you're talking about MF and GC and other big box stores, they're selling boatloads of 1950's tech. I'm sure the smaller modern builders have taken note.

[Raccio14]

fair enough. I just thought they had died out, because I had yet to hear mention of any companies (freelance, boutique, or even mainstream) that still used the tech.

And yeah, I know that you won't find a Carl Thompson in GC. In fact i was using my little 'foothold in the market' exactly in the way that CT has managed to do. He has a avid enough following that despite being far from mainstream, there's still practically a 2 year waiting list on a new bass of his. That's impressive. but yeah, completely besides the point.

I'm just interested in actually seeing a bass that incorporates this tech and is still around.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by raymondl3

It's probably not cost effective. It looks a little complicated to adjust from what I've seen. I think the necks have to be rather large to house the rod, don't they? Every Bunker and PBC I've seen has baseball bat profiled, air craft carrier neck.

Y'all are forgetting one thing: the Bunker tension-free neck can serve as a weapon in times of duress. Example:

Robber: "Give me all your money, mofo!"

Me: "Wait a minute..."

*Remove strings (won't take long...its headless)
*Fumble in tool box for appropriate hex keys
*Remove neck from instrument
*Remove relief-adjustment cap screw and anchor pin
*Withdraw tension-free rod from headstock end of neck

Me: Bludgeons would-be robber (now yawning) with 30 inches of cold-rolled steel stock.

Mrs Zooberwerx: "My hero!"

Riis