Is there too much relief in my neck?

Evil Undead · #1 07-25-2011, 01:15 PM

I am concerned that there may be too much relief in the neck of my bass. It's got a great low action and plays perfectly, but there is a noticeable bow in the neck.

Is it possible to damage a neck by having too much relief?

It may only be very slight, and is only noticeable on close inspection, but I'm a bit of a noob and don't know how much is too much.

Pictures

And at the 5th fret:

JTE · #2 07-25-2011, 01:20 PM

Fret it at the first fret and the last fret simultaneously. Measure the distance between the bottom of the E string and the top of the 7th fret. I like to see mine around 1/64", Music Man's suggestion (pre Ernie Ball anyway) was 1/32" or so. But if has "... a great low action and plays perfectly", there's really no problem.

Hard to tell looking at photos without eliminating the nut from the equation (why you fret it at the first fret when making measurements) but it does look pretty extreme to me.

John

Rockman · #3 07-25-2011, 01:22 PM

Press the string down at both ends of the board ad then take a picture of the space between the string and the free around the 7th/9th fret Sticka credit card or 2 in the space, if you can't fit 1 in there is probably too little reliefe, if 2 is loose than you probably have too much relief. This is assuming you don't have a set of feeler gauges. If you do do the same thing but use a gauge instead of the card

Evil Undead · #4 07-25-2011, 01:27 PM

Ah cool. Ok. I fretted it at the first and the 12th, and used my trusty ATM card.

I could fit it in, but not without the string being moved away from the fretboard slightly.

Whaddya think?

FretlessMainly · #5 07-25-2011, 01:31 PM

No, fret it at the first fret and highest fret and check it w/ your ATM card at the midpoint (9th or 10th fret, unless you have a 24-fretter).

Evil Undead · #6 07-25-2011, 01:33 PM

I have a 24 fretter. So I'll try my card at the 12th... I'll brb

Evil Undead · #7 07-25-2011, 01:36 PM

Ok. Got the Mrs to fret the 1st, and I fretted the 24th.

Tried the ATM card at the 12th, perfect fit, snug but not too much.

FretlessMainly · #8 07-25-2011, 01:38 PM

That sounds about right, but I will admit that your photo suggests some bow to the neck. But, photos can be very deceptive. Even sighting the neck can trick you into thinking there's a bow at times.

Another tool is to get a true straight edge, like a metal yard stick, and lay the edge on your fretboard to see if the fingerboard dips below the straight edge at any point.

Evil Undead · #9 07-25-2011, 01:43 PM

If there is slightly too much relief, is there a risk of damaging the neck?

Kinda scared to adjust the rod as it's an expensive bass and I don't wanna break it.

Rockman · #10 07-25-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

If there is slightly too much relief, is there a risk of damaging the neck?

Kinda scared to adjust the rod as it's an expensive bass and I don't wanna break it.

Not really any risk unless there is a serious bow, which you don't have. Adjusting a truss rod is a pretty simple procedure that if you learn how to do it you'll be able to save money on paying someone to do it. I wouldn't worry about it unless you notice a change in how the bass plays.

Evil Undead · #11 07-25-2011, 01:56 PM

ok, thank you

I've adjusted truss rods before, but only on cheaper instruments - squiers and ltd's and the like. Just don't want to damage my precious warwick!

Thanks for all the responses, much happier now

darkstorm · #12 07-25-2011, 01:58 PM

Slightly too much relief isnt a problem except it makes fretting harder. Too much relief puts more pull on the neck to bow it more. Cause the angle of pull is diff, not so much straight down the neck as you have when the neck is allmost dead straight. Looking at the pic it appears to be ok relief amount but could maybe be adjusted for little bit less.

As long as you do little turns of truss rod and its not difficult to turn truss rod adjustment, your ok, Half turn max at a time for truss rod. Qaurter turn prob better at a time for newbies and of course anytime minor tweak is all your wanting. Of course sight down neck to see what change has occured and check tuning. More relief causes notes to be bit more flat, less causes them to be a bit sharp. For when no change to tuning has been done except as caused by neck relief change. Same thing tuning wise occurs when raising bridge saddles btw.

SBassman · #13 07-25-2011, 02:03 PM

Credit cards? Mine are thick. I thought the measurement is done with one or two Business Cards thickness.

Since you say it is an expensive bass:
- Bring it to a tech who will let you watch. Let him/her inspect and adjust in front of you. Then, going forward, you can take care of it yourself. It's worth the few bucks one time, especially if you know for certain that the tech is trained/good. You'll get an adjustment and maintenance instruction at the same time.

dmusic148 · #14 07-25-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Too much relief puts more pull on the neck to bow it more. Cause the angle of pull is diff, not so much straight down the neck as you have when the neck is allmost dead straight.

This is not true. Many people think it is, but it's not. It will not harm the neck.

Budbear · #15 07-25-2011, 03:25 PM

1. No harm will come to the neck if the relief is high.
2. Wood moves as relative humidity varies. Relief adjustment keeps up with these changes. Learn to do it yourself and you'll save a lot of money and have a easy playing bass.
3. Don't do more than a quarter turn at first. If you've been maintaining the neck all along it shouldn't need more. If it does, let it settle in for at least 30 minutes and then add an eighth turn at a time.
4. Wives can be handy, but not always available. Get a cheap capo to press the strings at the first fret. Also, you don't need a straight edge for this; the taut string will be perfectly straight. Don't waste your money.
5. After the capo is on, press the string at the last fret and measure the gap at the 8th -9th fret. Use a feeler gauge of .015" to check the relief. If you have no gauge then a Fender thin pick is about the right thickness. If you're a heavy handed plucker you may want more relief to avoid fret buzz. If you've got the touch of an angel then you'll get away with less. This all depends on the quality of your frets leveling, but that's another issue entirely.
6. Warwick truss rods are high quality. Don't be afraid to adjust them.
7. Enjoy your bass.

stflbn · #16 07-25-2011, 03:37 PM

Also, the spacing can depend on how you play the bass, and your technique. On my Big Al 5 I tend to play the strings fingerstyle more aggressively so I have a bit more relief in the setup (about an ATM width) to allow more vibration of the strings and more aggressive fingerstyle attack. On my Spector I tend to have it setup with an almost dead straight neck and play it more gently fingerstyle and for slap.

So often it just depends on how you play, and the technique of how you play. There is no set numbers...

Evil Undead · #17 07-25-2011, 03:48 PM

I'm quite an aggressive player. Play a lot of punk and metal. Maybe in that case I should leave it as is... It plays wonderfully, no complaints at all.

stflbn · #18 07-25-2011, 03:52 PM

It's not to much. If it's comfortable... play it. Honestly... changing it around will likely only make you aware of the change and paranoid.

IMHO.

JLS · #19 07-25-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Maybe in that case I should leave it as is...

It ain't broke, don't fix it.

Budbear · #20 07-25-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

... It plays wonderfully, no complaints at all.

In that case you have your relief set correctly. However, it will move as the seasons change, so follow the procedure I outlined earlier. But this time instead of setting it at .015", write down the measurement of your relief using a feeler gauge, which are inexpensive and easily found at an auto supply store, and when the neck moves ( trust me, it WILL move) you can readjust it to your liking.