Thoughts on cheating intonation on a lined fretless.

edpal · #1 01-30-2012, 06:52 PM

I've seen people say they have a lined fretless and they just cheated the intonation so that playing between the frets was ok. Constructive thoughts on that - not trolling comments of "go lineless."

Blake Bass · #2 01-30-2012, 07:01 PM

Playing on the fret line is not even 100% guaranteed to be in tune, but playing in between the lines will pretty much guarantee that you're playing out of tune.

96tbird · #3 01-30-2012, 07:09 PM

One guy on tb watches his pedal tuner, how's that? Who cares, just get the job done and ftw.

pbasswil · #4 01-30-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edpal

I've seen people say they have a lined fretless and they just cheated the intonation so that playing between the frets was ok. Constructive thoughts on that - not trolling comments of "go lineless."

I've recently taken up double bass after a career of fretted electric. I want to play in tune, and have had no qualms about putting a couple of little marker stickers at the 5th and at the octave. It's not going to stop me from building up muscle memory of those points on the finger board; at some point I won't need them. But for now they're real useful.

At any rate, you'll figure out what works for you. I just encourage you to make your own choice, rather than getting caught up in what anyone else says is right or wrong.

Turnaround · #5 01-30-2012, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edpal

I've seen people say they have a lined fretless and they just cheated the intonation so that playing between the frets was ok.

Bad idea. If you set it so the correct intonation is achieved half way between the 11th and 12 fret position, that doesn't mean it will be right half way between the 1st and second fret. In fact to be in tune you will still need to be pretty close to the first fret position. It will back off more and more from the fret position the further up the neck you go. Pretty confusing I would say.

ehque · #6 01-30-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turnaround

Bad idea. If you set it so the correct intonation is achieved half way between the 11th and 12 fret position, that doesn't mean it will be right half way between the 1st and second fret. In fact to be in tune you will still need to be pretty close to the first fret position. It will back off more and more from the fret position the further up the neck you go. Pretty confusing I would say.

+1.

It's not like doing it will allow you to play anywhere between the line, you'll need to play at a PARTICULAR point in between the lines - and at a point that differs from fret to fret.

At that point you have none of the benefits of a lined fretless and none of the perceived glamour of an unlined. Don't see the point.

jonathanhughes · #7 01-30-2012, 08:08 PM

The key to playing in tune is to place your finger directly behind the fret line so that the string hits on the fret line. As others have stated, any adjustment you make at the bridge isn't going to be consistent across the length of the neck. Learn where to put your finger, and you'll never have any problems staying in tune.

I'm so glad my first bass teacher taught me to fret directly behind the fret. When I started playing fretless, there was no adjustment in technique needed.

ehque · #8 01-30-2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanhughes

The key to playing in tune is to place your finger directly behind the fret line so that the string hits on the fret line. As others have stated, any adjustment you make at the bridge isn't going to be consistent across the length of the neck. Learn where to put your finger, and you'll never have any problems staying in tune.

I'm so glad my first bass teacher taught me to fret directly behind the fret. When I started playing fretless, there was no adjustment in technique needed.

Same for me. I practically fret ON the fret, so close behind i was.

testing1two · #9 01-30-2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edpal

I've seen people say they have a lined fretless and they just cheated the intonation so that playing between the frets was ok. Constructive thoughts on that - not trolling comments of "go lineless."

There's really no practical reason to do this. The goal is to learn how to play in tune. The lines are there to help you do this. They are not perfect but they provide immediate visual feedback that will keep you playing more notes in tune. Playing more notes in tune is critical to train your ears and develop muscle memory in your hands so that eventually you won't be looking at the fingerboard at all, at which point the lines become irrelevant.

So just play on top of the lines and practice, practice, practice.

jonathanhughes · #10 01-30-2012, 08:30 PM

Well, if you play right on top of them, you're going to be sharp (unless you have thin blade-like fingers) because the meat of your fingers is going press the string down slightly in front of the fret line.

fraublugher · #11 01-30-2012, 08:57 PM

the only " cheating " intonation is "dial in" time , if it takes to long , consider yourself "caught" .
Intonate your bass , then play octaves with one open string and use your ear for finger placement. At first you may need a slow vibrato [on single notes]to give yourself a nano second of "dial in" time. Eventually after some practice , your dial in time will be shorter and when there's no dial in time , you're the king of the world.

good luck

Slowgypsy · #12 01-31-2012, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edpal

I've seen people say they have a lined fretless and they just cheated the intonation so that playing between the frets was ok. Constructive thoughts on that - not trolling comments of "go lineless."

I play primarily fretless, and I'm hard pressed to understand what the advantage and reason for doing this would be.

ugly_bassplayer · #13 01-31-2012, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96tbird

One guy on tb watches his pedal tuner, how's that?.

Please tell me you're kidding.

edpal · #14 01-31-2012, 06:32 AM

Gentlemen, this ws a theoretical - I started on upright bass 31 years ago. Thanks for the thoughts.

rocmonster · #15 01-31-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testing1two

"The goal is to learn how to play in tune."

One way I found that helps me is to not even look at the fingerboard when I practise playing fretless. I close my eyes and focus on the tone and pitch. It's a great way to connect your ear to your hand and build up the correct muscle memory that testing1two mentioned. After awhile, I find it liberating to just 'play' without looking at the fingerboard, and get lost in the emotional component of playing bass, which I love.

Slowgypsy · #16 01-31-2012, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edpal

Gentlemen, this ws a theoretical - I started on upright bass 31 years ago. Thanks for the thoughts.

That said, since you've played for so many years, I'd say that shifting the intonation on a fretless bass this way makes as much sense as moving the bridge on your upright to shift intonation.

Febs · #17 01-31-2012, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edpal

I've seen people say they have a lined fretless and they just cheated the intonation so that playing between the frets was ok. Constructive thoughts on that - not trolling comments of "go lineless."

I agree with those who have said this is a bad idea. For one thing, you can't intonate so that the entire area between the fret lines is in tune. There is still going to be be one spot between the frets where you are in tune, and the remainder of the area between the fret lines will not be in tune, so I don't see that there is any advantage to doing this rather than properly intonating. Second, the open strings would be out of tune compared to the intonated spots between the fret lines.