Threaded string nut?

[VincentSalizeri]

So I was planning on converting one of my fours to a five, mainly just to do it. The problem was, I really wanted to avoid having to get all the tools and such to get a bridge and nut with the proper spacing. That's a bit expensive. I was trying to figure out some kind of cheap way to set the string spacing. Then, I happened to look at my bridge, and realised it had threaded saddles.

There's not issues with string slippage on the bridge end, so I'm going to use a bolt for that end, probably set like your average acoustic bridge. My question, though, is will that work for the nut as well? I'd assume string tension would keep the strings in place, but there's probably something I don't know. Should I worry about proper break angles or anything of that sort? Tell me why this would be a bad idea so I can see if I can work around it.

[testing1two]

Typically the depth of the nut slots should be at least half the string's diameter or the string will pop out of the slot while playing. There's also a potential issue with tuning stability if the strings bind in the nut slots.

[VincentSalizeri]

Originally Posted by testing1two

Typically the depth of the nut slots should be at least half the string's diameter or the string will pop out of the slot while playing. There's also a potential issue with tuning stability if the strings bind in the nut slots.

So tension would not hold it in properly? I also considered using a string tree across all five strings to keep the break angle down as this is not an angled headstock, but if that's the case it wouldn't make much of a difference. Thanks for your reply.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by VincentSalizeri

So I was planning on converting one of my fours to a five, mainly just to do it. The problem was, I really wanted to avoid having to get all the tools and such to get a bridge and nut with the proper spacing. That's a bit expensive. I was trying to figure out some kind of cheap way to set the string spacing. Then, I happened to look at my bridge, and realised it had threaded saddles.

There's not issues with string slippage on the bridge end, so I'm going to use a bolt for that end, probably set like your average acoustic bridge. My question, though, is will that work for the nut as well? I'd assume string tension would keep the strings in place, but there's probably something I don't know. Should I worry about proper break angles or anything of that sort? Tell me why this would be a bad idea so I can see if I can work around it.

This is a very bad idea. Have a nut made, when you get this bass setup as a 5 string. Trying to kludge a 4 string bridge into a 5 string bridge is ill-advised, as well.

[john grey]

I deeply agree with the above opinion.
Kluging a 4 to a 5 is not as simple as even replacing a whole neck AND BRIDGE. You have the pickups to consider. Most folks have thought about it and some people even have a decent shop to try it. Remember you're going to have to kludge another tuner into that head as well. The electronics are also going to need total replacement.
The density of the magnetic field will not support an additional string even IF you have a "bar magnet" pickup design that traverses the length of string spread! Pickups are designed to "field density" levels that an additional (especially a B) string would compromise.
But when all is said and done you're replacing the whole damn bass!!!

[walterw]

wilkinson used to have a rig-up for converting a fender 4 to a 5, with replacement nut, a string anchor that replaced the string tree, and a bridge that had one tuner mechanism for the extra string, which you'd anchor at the headstock end and tune up at the bridge.

it was a silly contraption, resulting in super-narrow string spacing and questionable tone.

as for the threaded-rod nut idea, there's little reason to change string spacing up there, and a big reason to have the strings held firmly in place, to have them set to a precise height above the first fret (precise enough that you need to individually file the slots to get there), to have them follow the radius of the first fret, to have them make contact exactly at the end of the fretboard, and to have them slide over that nut with as little friction as possible. a piece of threaded rod would fail on all counts.

[lethargytartare]

Agree that it's not a great idea...I think the bridge idea is the lesser of "evils." With the nut, as noted above, you'd need to grind the bottom of it to get the string heights right (since you're looking to avoid slotting tools). Then as noted, there's no depth to the slots, so the strings would be popping around if you played with any force at all. A string tree might help, but then again, the threads, not being perfectly parallel to the string, might gradually destroy the strings anyway. And finally, the break point would be in a different spot -- with a proper nut the break point is right at the end of the fb, where the guitar was designed to have the break point. This, plus the bolt-bridge might make intonation nearly impossible.

If I were doing to go for it, I'd probably want to halve and quarter, and smooth out all over, the bolt-nut. And for that much work, I'd just assume get some corian and learn how to make a proper nut.

[john grey]

It would get really cramped up from the first fret to the fifth on the neck however. And his electronics wouldn't sound appropriate for his B and D (there's just too much spread, etc). A few folks have tried this before and the results just didn't make it. I suppose if the neck were really wide it could be a good learning project and make a functional practice 5 string but there are so many affordable 5 strings that sound decent it seems like a gamble with the best outcome still marginal.

[VincentSalizeri]

Thanks for the replies all. I'm just going to find myself a blank and learn how to slot a nut properly. Though, for the record, I'm using piezo coax for the pickup, so magnetic pickups aren't an issue. I already have a five, so this is just kind of a test to see what I can pull off.