Too Big For Toothpicks Strap Button Problem

[Bobby B]

I believe someone took out the original strap button on this bass, made a much bigger hole, and then put a strap button on a big post in there. I have played other copies of this bass (Guild B402) and haven't seen this in any of the others, also the horn button is a regular type.



I use straplocks and want to put one in here, but the hole needs to be filled with something solid that will hold the strap button without falling apart. I'm not going to be leaping off any PA columns with it, but need a reliable fix.

Anyone had experience with this stuff?
http://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-8257-.../dp/B002NJDAJY

Any ideas?

[Stealth]

Personally, I'd just plug it with a wooden dowel and then drill the straplock hole into that.

[superfunk47]

Originally Posted by Stealth

Personally, I'd just plug it with a wooden dowel and then drill the straplock hole into that.

+1

The toothpick thing is just to get wood into holes that small (into normal size screw holes, that is). You can get a solid dowel that'll fill that up nicely with some wood glue. Let it dry, make it flush, and drill your new hole. Easy!

[NKBassman]

I'd say look for "wood plugs" instead of dowels. From what I understand dowels have a length-wise grain, so you're screwing into the end grain, which isn't as strong as side grain.

[bucephylus]

The toothpicks are only a temporary fix anyhow, IME. They are made from soft woods, such as pine, and don't support torque from screw tightening very well.

The furniture dowels that you will find at Home Depot or Lowe's are a much more permanent fix. They are generally sold in the screw/fastener section in bags and are about 1 1/4" long. They are made of hardwood (usually oak) and have serrated outer walls to take the wood glue. They work quite well. GL

[timmus]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

They are made from soft woods, such as pine,

Actually, toothpicks are generally made from birch

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Still a soft wood.

[Bobby B]

The post that it was drilled for is tapered. I should have pointed that out to start with.





Plugging it with a dowel would leave a lot space around the dowel at the surface.

[Bobby B]

"Toothpick" was just a catch-all term for the title. They work OK for some stuff, but it's not really a good fix. Getting a scrap of kiln dried hardwood from a woodworker and shaving off strips, then mixing with a little wood glue (which expands the wood and fills it with glue) is a much better solution in most cases. It won't work in this one, and I put it in the title because I searched for a solution before posting this thread, and the default response to most similar threads was to stuff it with toothpicks and put the screw back in.

[timmus]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

Still a soft wood.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_birch_a..._or_a_hardwood

It may be a fairly soft hardwood but it isn't a softwood. Softwoods are coniferous trees rather than deciduous...I know, I know....semantics

[Chasarms]

I think you'd be perfectly fine filling it with the epoxy-based wood filler that you suggested. Just make sure you pack it in nice and tight.

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by Bobby B

The post that it was drilled for is tapered. I should have pointed that out to start with.





Plugging it with a dowel would leave a lot space around the dowel at the surface.

You could find a dowel that matched the outer diameter and carve it down to roughly match the taper of the current endpin. That said, a dowel would have you screwing into end grain. I think the epoxy would be stronger than that.

[nealw]

Find a wood dowel roughly the size of the outside hole and a drill bit of the same size. Carefully drill out the hole, put a dab of wood glue in there, and tap in the dowel. Cut off any excess and sand flush.

[timmus]

If you use a dowel, run the screw in, then remove it and then using water thin CA (basically very thin superglue) put some drops of it in the hole left by the screw you just removed. It will soak into the wood...let it harden...you might have to do this a few times to makes sure that the dowel is fairly saturated with the CA...then you can run the screw back in and not worry about the grain of the dowel pulling out...

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by timmus

Actually, toothpicks are generally made from birch

Not consistent with my experience.

I built kitchen cabinets from birch some years back and had to pre-drill and use hardened nails for the framing. Some of the hardest wood I've ever worked with. Not at all similar to the typical toothpicks. Maybe you get yours from a different source?

[DRafalske]

Originally Posted by nealw

Find a wood dowel roughly the size of the outside hole and a drill bit of the same size. Carefully drill out the hole, put a dab of wood glue in there, and tap in the dowel. Cut off any excess and sand flush.

This.
No need to overcomplicate. Should be a 10-15 minute fix.

[Caca de Kick]

Originally Posted by Bobby B

The post that it was drilled for is tapered. I should have pointed that out to start with.

Plugging it with a dowel would leave a lot space around the dowel at the surface.

Yup simple answer is you drill out a bigger hole to get rid of the countersink/taper, and use a bigger diameter dowel.

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

Not consistent with my experience.

I built kitchen cabinets from birch some years back and had to pre-drill and use hardened nails for the framing. Some of the hardest wood I've ever worked with. Not at all similar to the typical toothpicks. Maybe you get yours from a different source?

Well, I stand corrected. I do see that toothpicks are made from white birch. However, the process seems to include a certain amount of processing of the fiber from sheets. So, I don't know how much of the inherent strength is retained vs manufacturability. Interesting!

Birch is, however, a hard wood with a hardness of about 4 on a scale of 1 to 5.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...odworking.html
But, I know when I built my kitchen cabinets I was also working with red oak for all the trim in the house; and the birch was much harder to drive nails into than the oak, which has a similar hardness. So, YMMV.

Anyhow, my experience with the durability of oak dowels vs toothpicks stands. The toothpicks, whatever their materials/construction, do not have useful mechanical properties for holding strap button screws, IME.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Chasarms

I think you'd be perfectly fine filling it with the epoxy-based wood filler that you suggested. Just make sure you pack it in nice and tight.

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

No "wood filler", even epoxy-based.

Drill the hole out so that a straight plug can be glued in.

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by JLS

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

No "wood filler", even epoxy-based.

Drill the hole out so that a straight plug can be glued in.

Why? The material dries harder than wood and does not shrink. It is a fully functional repair.