Total noob question - I want to replace these tuners...

meatwad · #1 01-29-2012, 10:35 AM

... so which ones should I be looking at? Here's the ones I want to do away with -

They are still the original tuners on this '90 Fender JP-90 neck, and are stamped "Licensed by Schaller". To me, they seem a lot like the ones on some MIM basses in size and appearance from pics, but I want to be sure before I order anything.

I'm hoping to replace them with Fender "F" Schallers like on my '11 AMSTD Precision, because these things are amazing! These look to have a similar footprint -

Fender/Schaller XBS-1C Ultralite Bass Tuners

Can anybody help me out here? I'm ultimately hoping to accomplish this with as little to no modifications to the neck as possible.

Thanks!
Wade

SolarMan · #2 01-29-2012, 10:44 AM

The question we are first going to ask is:

Why are you looking to replace your tuners?

bolophonic · #3 01-29-2012, 10:56 AM

Is there something wrong with the tuners or are you just looking for a project to do?

meatwad · #4 01-29-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolarMan

The question we are first going to ask is:

Why are you looking to replace your tuners?

Yeah, should of seen it coming.

The existing tuners actually work quite well, but when compared to the appearance, smoothness, and accuracy of those on my AMSTD, replacing them seems quite tempting.

meatwad · #5 01-29-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolophonic

Is there something wrong with the tuners or are you just looking for a project to do?

I've put together this bass as a total project, so you might could say that.

brendanbassist · #6 01-29-2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatwad

Yeah, should of seen it coming.

The existing tuners actually work quite well, but when compared to the appearance, smoothness, and accuracy of those on my AMSTD, replacing them seems quite tempting.

As far as "accuracy", are you sure that isn't the fault of your nut? Schaller makes pretty quality stuff.

meatwad · #7 01-29-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendanbassist

As far as "accuracy", are you sure that isn't the fault of your nut? Schaller makes pretty quality stuff.

What I meant by accuracy is this; When I tune, I always tune up to pitch. So, when I go from tuning the pitch from low to high, there is a complete "dead spot" in the action at the gear. This is not evident in the tuners on my other P, StingRay, Tobias, Ibanez, ect..

In other words, they feel sloppy. I don't think it's at the nut, but rather at the gear.

SolarMan · #8 01-29-2012, 11:30 AM

The ones you are replacing are liscensed by Schaller

The ones you are thinking of installing are made by Schaller

not sure how different they are going to perform

I guess since the ones you want to install don't screw to the back ot the headstock - the only question is are the peg holes the same size as the threaded bushings on the new set?

Someone here will know the answer - just not me

If you don't get an answer here - try posting this in Luthiers Corner

Good Luck

(yeah, the new ones do LOOK cooler!)

Pilgrim · #9 01-29-2012, 02:24 PM

I'm sure it can be done - the question is whether you want to spend the money and modify the bass when potential for improvement is questionable.

meatwad · #10 01-29-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

I'm sure it can be done - the question is whether you want to spend the money and modify the bass when potential for improvement is questionable.

When I tune this project Pbass, set it down, then tune my AMSTD, the potential for improvement is actually pretty obvious. Thanks for all the responses, but let me start over again.

Hi! My bass has crappy tuners on it. They are in the first picture I posted above. I want to upgrade these to the newer Schaller/Fender tuners like in the second picture. Does my existing tuners resemble standard MIM tuners to anybody else?
Thanks!
Wade

walterw · #11 01-29-2012, 03:47 PM

+1 to tuner slop almost never being the source of tuning problems;

that said, lightweight keys are a worthwhile investment either way, and the new fender ones are certainly nice.

i doubt you're gonna find anything that won't involve a little drilling on the back of the headstock. (for example, you'll note that the new fenders don't have the little screws; they instead have projections on the plate that fit into holes in the wood to lock it in place.)

if you're worried about reversibility or vintage value, just get keys that are a little smaller than the originals, so that the originals could go back on and cover up any new holes.

the critical spec is the main hole through the peghead. i think the new fenders will fit.

meatwad · #12 01-29-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

+1 to tuner slop almost never being the source of tuning problems;

that said, lightweight keys are a worthwhile investment either way, and the new fender ones are certainly nice.

i doubt you're gonna find anything that won't involve a little drilling on the back of the headstock. (for example, you'll note that the new fenders don't have the little screws; they instead have projections on the plate that fit into holes in the wood to lock it in place.)

if you're worried about reversibility or vintage value, just get keys that are a little smaller than the originals, so that the originals could go back on and cover up any new holes.

the critical spec is the main hole through the peghead. i think the new fenders will fit.

Great info here, thanks walter! I'm not so much worried about vintage value, I just want to avoid visible holes with whatever I end up doing (which may even be leaving her as-is, since it doesn't have any tuning problems at all with the originals). It's just that sloppy tuners have always been amongst one of my many peeves, so I've kinda been on the fence about it up 'til now.

Ultimately though, I'm to the point that if I had a template in-hand for drilling the necessary holes you've mentioned, and knew the original holes would be hid beneath the new tuner's baseplate, I would probably already have some on the way.

Anybody else have any more info, please?

Nev375 · #13 01-29-2012, 06:56 PM

I think you will have 2 holes showing. One quick way to find out would be to remove the G string from each bass and it's tuner and check the fit. Be very careful backing out the 4 screws that hold the one tuner, sometimes those heads break off.

Rocky McD · #14 01-29-2012, 06:58 PM

Schaller, made in Germany, makes direct replacements for your tuners (I think) Your tuners are not the same as the MIM Fenders. They look like the Squier pattern.The real Schallers will cost about $80.00 Just make sure it is the exact screw pattern so you won't have old screw holes showing. The German Schallers have nice tight toleranaces and feel good with no slack in the gears. Most sellers will show a schematic of the pattern that you can compare to yours.
Rocky

walterw · #15 01-29-2012, 08:03 PM

if you want the new keys to cover the old holes, your choices are more limited, unless you go with other heavy keys.

the gotoh res-o-lites are top-notch, very light weight, and built to directly fit early vintage keys, which had pretty big plates. they're not cheap, though.

i've had good luck with the earlier schaller/fenders that have the black boron housings to replace the boat anchors on my american standard P-bass.

some holes may still show, but it doesn't look that bad.

the catch here is that you need to put a drop of loctite (#242, the gentle stuff) under the little tension adjustment screws, or they'll back out over time and fall out.