Trem Questions

[thekorean]

I have recently been looking into some trems for my Epi T-bird. Two brands have standed out so far, hipshot and Kahler. I was wondering what the difference is. In the kahler's case what one would I get, the rear or forward one. Is a template needed even if I get it professionally installed.

Thanks

[Deathblade Eric]

I've got a Kahler on one of my old Arias, & it came with a cardboard template.

It's been a few years since I looked into these, but as far as I know, the Kahler is the less intrusive. Hipshots need a bucketload more routing as they're sprung from the rear of the body - like a Strat - so you end up with a hole from front to back. Kahlers have self-contained springs so just need a clearance pocket underneath them. The guy who fitted mine just used the template to mark out the body & routed the pocket freehand - not the neatest of jobs, but with the Kahler over the top nothing shows.

After a quick Google, I'm guessing you'd need the rearward roller version, but it might be tight. A couple of measurements from mine:

Overall length of frame = 3 1/8"
Distance from intonation line (saddles) to rear of frame = 2" approx.
Distance from roller saddle to front of frame at full forward position = 1 1/4"

So if you've got at least 1 1/4" clear between the edge of the bridge p/up to your most forward saddle (G?) & about 1 3/4" - 2" from that saddle to the edge of your T-Bird, you could be good to go. Might be a way of curing neck-dive too

To be on the safe side drop Kahler an e-mail, from my experience they're really helpful.

Have a gratuitous photo or two:



Pete.

[thekorean]

okay thank you very much. I am going to avoid hipshot then. I noticed on wammiworld they only have the bass hybrid one, will that one work? also what is the difference as it is much cheaper

Thanks

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by thekorean

okay thank you very much. I am going to avoid hipshot then. I noticed on wammiworld they only have the bass hybrid one, will that one work? also what is the difference as it is much cheaper

Thanks

It ought to, but check the measurements against your bass, If you've got any doubts, drop WammiWorld or Kahler an e-mail - I've found 'em both to be really helpful & friendly.

TBH I'm not sure of the exact difference between the 2410 & the 7410-hybrid. I always thought I had the 7410, just found the original box (& receipt dated April 1988!) & it turns out I've had the 2410 all along. There's a photo here that shows a small screw that I guess locks the trem solid. Seems a bit pointless to me TBH, I've never had problems with tuning instability in the 22 years (!) that I've had my Kahler. Ditto to that guff on the WW front page that recommends Locking Tuners etc. - my tuners are the cheapest bits of bent Japanese tin you could ever hope to find, & they've never, not once been a source of trouble. Original Aria plastic nut too.

*********************************
Stop Press!!! Found an old e-mail I sent to WammiWorld when I was thinking about getting a 7415 5-string trem:

There is no spec. difference. only handmade vs. factory forged.
The hybrid does not come in forward unfortunately because the rearward is universal for all mounting spaces. Forward is for bridge areas that have little forward room for placement. I hope this helps.

Thank You,
Wammi J
Customer Support dept.
*********************************

I guess the price difference is down to quantity - if you need forward rollers, Kahler will make you one... for a price.

Speaking of cost, if you do go for one, be prepared for a big bill for strings - these things eat 'em!

Pete.

[thekorean]

That is very good to hear and I'm guessing wammiworld is a reliable site to buy off of. worried now after reading that article on it saying that the action may have to go up.

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by thekorean

That is very good to hear and I'm guessing wammiworld is a reliable site to buy off of. worried now after reading that article on it saying that the action may have to go up.

I doubt it. I put mine into The Bass Gallery in London a couple of years back for a fret-dressing/setup & it came back with an action so scary-low that I had to raise it to suit my tastes.

Quick rough measurement: With mine, the distance from the body to the top edge of the E-string roller is about 5/8" (15mm). Bear in mind that the roller has a V section, so the actual distance will be around 1/16" (1.5mm) less than that. The distance from the body to the top of the last fret on the E is 3/8" (9mm).

How does your existing set-up compare?

Pete.

[thekorean]

on my ray 5 (set up the way i like it) it is about .5" from the body to the top of the stiring at the bridge

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by thekorean

on my ray 5 (set up the way i like it) it is about .5" from the body to the top of the stiring at the bridge

What about the T-Bird?

[thekorean]

the T-bird isn't set up the new way yet as I was waiting for the trem possiblility so I only need one fee (trem and probably will set it up at the same time along with pickups.)

[Reynoldbot]

I've got the hipshot trem on my jazz, and it works wonders. Yeah, I had to route a pretty big section of the body but I still get pretty good sustain, and the trem is second to none in quality. It's full-floating, smooth as butter and stays in tune as well as any other bridge provided you use all 5 springs. Also, the whammy bar simply slides into the slot instead of having to be threaded.

I think one of the biggest benefits of the hipshot over the kahler is the looks. The hipshot is elegant and simple and if you take off the whammy bar it looks just like a normal bridge. The kahler on the other hand, and I say this with full respect for its high quality, is an ugly overcomplicated mess of a design. If you are really into steampunk or post-industrialism, then the kahler is the way to go. If you want your bass to still look good on the other hand, the hipshot has the edge.

Both trem bridges are very high quality and similarly-priced, so really the question to ask is whether you care what your bass looks like and whether you mind routing a larger portion of your bass.

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by thekorean

the T-bird isn't set up the new way yet as I was waiting for the trem possiblility so I only need one fee (trem and probably will set it up at the same time along with pickups.)

Hmmm... bit of a random factor creeping in here

Looking at mine I reckon that the saddles would go down about another 1/8", but the strings would get really close to the intonation clamping screws which sit slightly proud of the clamping plates on mine (these things are a pain to intonate compared to a normal hard-tail btw).

If they do foul, I can suggest a couple of solutions...

1 - file down the head of the screw until it's clear (not ideal but it'd work)
2 - countersink the clamping plate a little more so that the screw sits lower (better solution)
3 - inset the entire trem frame into the body about 1/16" - 3/32" (complex routing, may cost more)

Of course none of this might be necessary at all. What's the distance from the body to the top of the last fret on the E on the T-Bird?

Pete.