Tuners machines... What's it all mean???

[bobunit]

Well, I am looking to change out my tuners on my Spector and I'm hoping to get some opinions on which brand, type, style, etc. to go with.
It is currently fitted with Gotoh GB7 machines. There is really nothing wrong with them, except that they are cosmetically worn (gold).
The Gotohs are 20:1 tuning ratio, however, I'm not quite sure about advantage of a higher vs. lower ratio.
Any advantage of an open gear tuner (Hipshot) vs. a sealed gear (Gotoh).
Any thoughts on the Sperzels, Schallers, etc.
Thanks much.

[Phalex]

Higher gear ratio will give you finer tuning capability. It takes a bigger turn of the key to move the post a the same amount as a courser ratio.

Personally, I like being able to see the working parts. Open gear are the way to go IMHO. A friend of mine had a very very cheap bass and stripped the gearing in one of the sealed tuners. If they are quality tuners, it's probably a wash, but I like to be able to see, and work on the moving parts if necessary.

[JTE]

Good sealed gears are better than open ones becasue they don't get dirt in them, and they stay lubricated. MOST good sealed gears also have adjustable tension so as the gears wear over the decades you can adjust the tension back. Gotoh and Schaller sealed gears are great as long as the shafts on the posts are big enough to accomodate the strings.

A higher gear ratio means exactly what Phalex says- it allows you to make finer adjustments. Just like gears on bicycle- In the lower ratios, one small move of the tuning machine ear pulls more string and you may very well go past the exact pitch you need. A higher ratio allows you to pull precisely where you want it to go.

jte

[bobunit]

Originally Posted by JTE

Good sealed gears are better than open ones becasue they don't get dirt in them, and they stay lubricated.

I'm just curious. If this is true, then why are so many manufacturers/luthiers opting to go with the open gear Hipshot Ultralite?

[JTE]

They're less expensive to make, and they're lighter. Plus they look like old Fenders.

jte

[pbass6811]

Originally Posted by JTE

They're less expensive to make, and they're lighter. Plus they look like old Fenders.

jte

Only the bottom half. The "head" part of the tuning keys on my MTD & my Roscoe aren't the old clover style, they look like Gotohs! My Pedulla has Gotohs. All my basses stay in tune really well!

[Mr M]

Hipshots are open to save some weight. Other than this, it can be that mojo/classic thing to choose so. They are a little pricey.

I've never seen a single Gotoh tuner that was bad.

I remember reading bad reviews of Schaller by TB'er Hambone. But I've never had a first hand experience.

Sperzel does not fit to GB7 holes, they require smaller diameter. I don't know why they chose to do so, but they are not direct fit to anything else, you have to fill the hole than redrill with a smaller diameter. I have a set with their detuner to be installed to a bass that I will assembly (with an undrilled Carvin neck).

If the weight is a concern you can go with Hipshot ultralites or Gotoh res-o-lites which are even lighter than Hipshots. If not, I'd go with sealed Gotohs.

[bobunit]

Originally Posted by Mr M

Hipshots are open to save some weight. Other than this, it can be that mojo/classic thing to choose so. They are a little pricey.

I've never seen a single Gotoh tuner that was bad.

I remember reading bad reviews of Schaller by TB'er Hambone. But I've never had a first hand experience.

Sperzel does not fit to GB7 holes, they require smaller diameter. I don't know why they chose to do so, but they are not direct fit to anything else, you have to fill the hole than redrill with a smaller diameter. I have a set with their detuner to be installed to a bass that I will assembly (with an undrilled Carvin neck).

If the weight is a concern you can go with Hipshot ultralites or Gotoh res-o-lites which are even lighter than Hipshots. If not, I'd go with sealed Gotohs.

Interesting. I hadn't even heard about the Gotoh res-o-lites. Thanks.

[whoatherechunk]

hopefully this isn't taken out of context...i am not trolling, but why is weight such an important aspect with tuners. it seems that they are so small that the benefit of saving weight doesn't make sense if the tuners are decent at best. i rather have great quality tuners that tune and stay tuned then light ones that may have some tuning problems. but i guess the weight adds up even if it's just one....they add up to four! hmmmmm.

[ByF]

Originally Posted by whoatherechunk

hopefully this isn't taken out of context...i am not trolling, but why is weight such an important aspect with tuners.

Weight is important to some people because their basses are neck heavy--lighter tuners can make the bass balance better. Or so I've heard; never had the problem myself.

Ed

[mongo2]

I've converted 4 of my basses from Hipshot Ultralights to Gotoh Res-O-Lite 350s.

On a 4 string it's like having one less Ultralight hanging out there.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by mongo2

I've converted 4 of my basses from Hipshot Ultralights to Gotoh Res-O-Lite 350s.

On a 4 string it's like having one less Ultralight hanging out there.

Interesting. I've been switching out my Gotoh GB7's to Hipshot UL's. May have to try some of the Res-O-Lites for a change.

The Hipshots have non-tapered string posts so they will change the string angle a bit as it passes thru the nut.

Riis

[walterw]

typical open keys have way bigger gears than the little sealed ones, translating to much more durability in the long run.

those res-o-lites look promising; any weight saved on a fender headstock translates to being able to use a significantly lighter body wood without the thing neck-diving.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by ByF

Weight is important to some people because their basses are neck heavy--lighter tuners can make the bass balance better. Or so I've heard; never had the problem myself.

Ed

I've heard the same, but I've also done the math to compare the weight of standard Fender tuners with lightweight ones - IIRC the difference was less than 4 ounces. That doesn't seem like it would make a great deal of difference.

But - the one time I really had that problem, I added adhesive tire weights under a chrome bridge cover and balanced the bass easily without spending $100 on tuners.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

I've heard the same, but I've also done the math to compare the weight of standard Fender tuners with lightweight ones - IIRC the difference was less than 4 ounces. That doesn't seem like it would make a great deal of difference.

But - the one time I really had that problem, I added adhesive tire weights under a chrome bridge cover and balanced the bass easily without spending $100 on tuners.

Perhaps one of our resident TB math/science gurus will be able to tell us how significant 4 ounces is when suspended at the end of a neck.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Perhaps one of our resident TB math/science gurus will be able to tell us how significant 4 ounces is when suspended at the end of a neck.

math schmath! i swapped out the ginormous cast-housing keys on my older and nicely lightweight american standard p-bass for the super light boron-whatever versions that came on the american deluxes, and the improvement in balance was obvious.

remember, out on the end of a long lever ("moment arm" is the term, i think?) like a bass neck, the slightest weight difference either way is multiplied at the pivot point, the bass's center of gravity.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by walterw

remember, out on the end of a long lever ("moment arm" is the term, i think?) like a bass neck, the slightest weight difference either way is multiplied at the pivot point, the bass's center of gravity.

That's the key! When you park those tuners out on the end of a 34" scale neck, I know it changes the balance more than is obvious from the simple difference in weight.

[XylemBassGuitar]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Perhaps one of our resident TB math/science gurus will be able to tell us how significant 4 ounces is when suspended at the end of a neck.

IME, it makes a pretty big difference, though I am not a math guru at all...

4 ounces is 1/4 of a pound too. I agree with Pilgrim, it can make quite the difference in terms of balance when it's suspended way out on the end of the neck.