tuning a 5 string higher...

scottblessed · #1 08-15-2008, 06:53 AM

hey there,

a friends band need my help as there bassist has just left to move on to better things. So I have been enlisted on bass duties for the time being.

My question is, I use a Stingray 5, and i was wondering if i could tune that up, no worries at all?

they play in Drop C so I was gonna tune
B>C
E>G
A>C
D>F

Is this possible without damaging the bass, providing i set the bass up to work this way by looseing some tension on the neck.

Thanks.

scott

Murder_Worship · #2 08-15-2008, 08:19 AM

I did it. i had no problems. My old band used to use it. Now i have my bass in C#. It will work fine.

BryanM · #3 08-15-2008, 08:23 AM

Be careful if you use heavy gauge strings, though. I know tuning up a perfect 4th can put enough tension to snap some of the standard gauges (.040-.100 for a 4 string), and so I imagine a minor 3rd would be a bit tight.

XylemBassGuitar · #4 08-15-2008, 09:43 AM

Hi Scott,

I would tighten the strings up about a half step at a time, waiting 1-3 days in between each time you tune the strings up. This way you can keep an eye on your neck relief while you wait in between tunings, and it will allow the bass to adjust to the tension more slowly.

You'll probably want to tighten your truss rod a little between each tuning to take out any extra neck relief that will be caused by the extra tension. Overall, you want to make sure that the neck has about the same amount of relief in the higher tuning as it does in the standard tuning.

If you have adjusted the truss rod to the maximum and your neck has a lot of relief after tuning up the minor third, you should be wary. That means that the rod can't counteract the tension of the strings and the tension could cause warpage or damage to the neck.

BryanM is right about the heavier gauge strings though. The heavier the gauge for a certain string, the more tension that string experiences at standard tunings. You might have to experiment with different gauges if any of your strings break sooner than normal.

Good Luck!

Warning: Truss rods are relatively easy to damage and damaged rods are not easy to fix in most cases. Without experience and a full understanding of how truss rods work, seek more information or advice from a professional before adjusting any truss rod.

BlackLake · #5 08-15-2008, 09:55 AM

Personally, I wouldn't do it...my basses all stay in BEADG in A-440. (the 4 bangers EADG)

About a year ago, I was asked to help out a local band for a few gigs, while their bassist got better after a car accident.

When I got the call the guitarist ended the convo with "oh, by the way, we tune a semi-tone lower"

At the first practice the singer/rhythm gtr noticing me tuning normal, and he say "wait!, we tune a semi-tone lower"

I said "No, YOU tune a semi-tone lower...I play a semi-tone lower"

If they use drop C and you're on a fiver, you have a C right there on your first fret, as well you have every note you could possibly need already there...just takes a bit of rethinking. I certainly won't bother re-adjusting, re-intonating, and chancing neck problems for any band, big or small.

wagstaff · #6 08-15-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottblessed

they play in Drop C so I was gonna tune
B>C
E>G
A>C
D>F

For the
B>C use a B string
E>G use a heavey (ish) A string (drop tune)
A>C use a drop tuned heavey (ish) D string
D>F Use a heavey (ish) drop tuned G stirng

my advise to prevent string breakage

Hope it helps

XylemBassGuitar · #7 08-15-2008, 10:40 AM

BlackLake raises a good point.

If you just play in drop C you avoid any risk in messing up the bass or breaking stings and you will become a better, more versatile musician at the same time. You'll also save all the time it would take to re-adjust the instrument.

Note: I forgot to mention in my original post, you would definitely want to check the intonation of the bass when you were done tuning it higher. The intonation would more than likely need to be re-adjusted for the new tuning.

von buck · #8 08-15-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLake

Personally, I wouldn't do it...my basses all stay in BEADG in A-440. (the 4 bangers EADG)

About a year ago, I was asked to help out a local band for a few gigs, while their bassist got better after a car accident.

When I got the call the guitarist ended the convo with "oh, by the way, we tune a semi-tone lower"

At the first practice the singer/rhythm gtr noticing me tuning normal, and he say "wait!, we tune a semi-tone lower"

If they use drop C and you're on a fiver, you have a C right there on your first fret, as well you have every note you could possibly need already there...just takes a bit of rethinking. I certainly won't bother re-adjusting, re-intonating, and chancing neck problems for any band, big or small.

+1 on retuning. It's better in the long run to learn the long run to lrarn the tunes in a standard tuning, unless you need something lower than a B.
It will take more work but worth it.i work with a gutard who likes to tube a half step down, so I just use my 5 when I gig with him to get that low E blues march.
Andy

Basseroni · #9 08-15-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottblessed

hey there,

a friends band need my help as there bassist has just left to move on to better things. So I have been enlisted on bass duties for the time being.

My question is, I use a Stingray 5, and i was wondering if i could tune that up, no worries at all?

they play in Drop C so I was gonna tune
B>C
E>G
A>C
D>F

Is this possible without damaging the bass, providing i set the bass up to work this way by looseing some tension on the neck.

Thanks.

scott

My question to you would be WHY? You have all the notes you need available to you with the standard tuning, BEADG, and some extra headroom in case you wanted to throw in a lower note. If you were planning on doing a lot of soloing and less foundation then I would understand why you would want to tune up but if you're playing BASS then I would leave it alone.

Thunderthumbs73 · #10 08-15-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottblessed

hey there,

a friends band need my help as there bassist has just left to move on to better things. So I have been enlisted on bass duties for the time being.

My question is, I use a Stingray 5, and i was wondering if i could tune that up, no worries at all?

they play in Drop C so I was gonna tune
B>C
E>G
A>C
D>F

Is this possible without damaging the bass, providing i set the bass up to work this way by looseing some tension on the neck.

Thanks.

scott

I would not recommend that. I also don't think that it's possible to not have any worries. But that's just me. It's one thing to tune one string up a 1/2 step or perhaps whole step, but that's a LOT of strings tuned up much more than one 1/2 step.

When I play alternate tunings on a guitar, I do occasionally tune one string or two up a 1/2 or whole step, but never leave it that way if I'm not actually playing it.

Do yourself a favor and leave the tuning of the bass alone, and learn how to play whatever the band wants to play, but using the tunings for the bass that are standard.

I just think you're asking for trouble doing dramatic tuning things and also playing with the truss rod to try to compensate for doing that.

Or if you still really are determined to do it the way you want to, take your bass to a pro setup shop, and see if they will do it. If they will, then cool. If they won't, then that might be another sign that it's not a good idea.

Best to you.

Arpeggiator · #11 08-15-2008, 12:43 PM

my band play in drop c i dont retune too much hassle for one or two song i tune a step down because the low A works well. but you should need to retune

rarisgod · #12 08-15-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLake

Personally, I wouldn't do it...my basses all stay in BEADG in A-440. (the 4 bangers EADG)

About a year ago, I was asked to help out a local band for a few gigs, while their bassist got better after a car accident.

When I got the call the guitarist ended the convo with "oh, by the way, we tune a semi-tone lower"

At the first practice the singer/rhythm gtr noticing me tuning normal, and he say "wait!, we tune a semi-tone lower"

I said "No, YOU tune a semi-tone lower...I play a semi-tone lower"

If they use drop C and you're on a fiver, you have a C right there on your first fret, as well you have every note you could possibly need already there...just takes a bit of rethinking. I certainly won't bother re-adjusting, re-intonating, and chancing neck problems for any band, big or small.

Exactly. I've never understood why people tune their basses differently if they don't have to.
Why would you want to tune a 5-string higher?

Quote:

Originally Posted by XylemBassGuitar

BlackLake raises a good point.

If you just play in drop C you avoid any risk in messing up the bass or breaking stings and you will become a better, more versatile musician at the same time. You'll also save all the time it would take to re-adjust the instrument.

Note: I forgot to mention in my original post, you would definitely want to check the intonation of the bass when you were done tuning it higher. The intonation would more than likely need to be re-adjusted for the new tuning.

+1

scottblessed · #13 08-16-2008, 08:20 PM

because they are a band with some really tight meshuggah-esque rhythm patterns. And with a lot more tension on the strings, I know I would find it a lot easier to play, that is all.

check em out, they are not bad.

www.myspace.com/mymindsweapon

its cool though, just gonna drop my ripper down to C.

EADG mx · #14 08-17-2008, 09:08 AM

People ask questions like this all of the time, and while it's definitely possible to play in standard it's not necessarily the best choice. The guitarist has likely written music that benefits from the CGCFAD tuning and if you're following him (which you likely will be) it's just easier to tune likewise. It also makes communication between the bassist and guitarist(s) much less of a headache. Stop thinking in theory, start thinking as if you were at band practice or trying to avoid a train wreck at a show.

To answer your question, I second using a light B string tuned up and a heavy 4 string set tuned down. This would offer the most consistent tension that would likely have the least effect on your setup. String your bass up, leave it a day or two and do a full setup.

Ric5 · #15 08-17-2008, 09:24 AM

When I play in C I play a 5 string tuned BEADG ... it works really nicely ... I can play songs in B, C, D, E, F, G, etc ...

I only ever had one time a 5 string tuned BEADG wouldn't work and that was when I needed a low B flat ... So I just tuned the BEADG all down 1/2 step ...

Krokodil KC · #16 08-24-2008, 07:33 PM

I understand that the 5 string typically comes (and is designed around) B-E-A-D-G.

Does E-A-D-G-C put a dangerous strain on the neck? Does just going to a light gauge set make it OK? (like 96-106 on E and 40 on the C)?

My question assumes a decent quality base not a monster like a Modulus.

One reason I ask this is that the E string is 41-44 cycles per second (Hz) depending on who you talk to...I assume the B is significantly lower and how many small bass amps (especially practice amps) can even reproduce this lower note without dropping the level audibly?

Thanks,

Da Krokodil

medawc · #17 08-25-2008, 01:50 PM

If playing with band tuning drop-C i would tune my 5-string ACGCF, using heavy 5-string set like 50-135. Or even GCGCF if I found proper strings (with lowest one about 145-150).
While playing fast staff written for drop-C with a lot of open string notes a standard BEADG can make it very hard or even impossible to play.

amper · #18 08-25-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottblessed

hey there,

a friends band need my help as there bassist has just left to move on to better things. So I have been enlisted on bass duties for the time being.

My question is, I use a Stingray 5, and i was wondering if i could tune that up, no worries at all?

they play in Drop C so I was gonna tune
B>C
E>G
A>C
D>F

Is this possible without damaging the bass, providing i set the bass up to work this way by looseing some tension on the neck.

Thanks.

scott

You almost certainly don't want to string a 5-string bass with only four strings, as this will place a twisting force on the neck. If you use roundwound strings, put together a custom gauge set and tune down to G-C-F-Bb-Eb, or C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab. I'd go low G rather than high Ab, myself. You'll want to go up to a .150 G string to go that low and maintain decent tension. Even a .145 at low G will likely be a bit floppy. Check with builders who make multi-string basses with a low F# for advice. With flats, you'll have trouble finding anything heavier than a standard .130-ish B string.

If you tune some variation of C-G-C-F (with an added string, of course), you might find that perfect fifth jump in between your second and third strings disconcerting.

Perhaps if you could define your guitarists' "drop C" tuning more exactly I could give you better help.