Tuning Question - Converting 4 string to a 5 minus 1

[thevintagesound]

Sorry for the poor title name, but is it possible to tune a 4 string jazz to the top 4 strings on a 5 string bass with out killing the neck? I read an article the other day about fitting into the mix with guitars. My project bass (J-bird) is an SX Jazz with Tbird pickups in it. So I thought of going to the lower tuning and fitting under the guitars instead of fighting in that general frequency range.

Thoughts??

[Insanity^2]

I've been planning on doing this with my old bass, but I never get round to ordering the strings ^^ My only thought is that the nut might need to be widened?

[El-Bob]

you'll need to file out the nut a bit, also the bigger strings will have less tension, so your neck may back bow a bit, if so you'll need a truss rod adjustment. not too difficult.

[Bass Below]

you'll have to file the nut, but the strings won't necessarily have less tension, depends what gauges you're using in your standard tuning. If you like the tension you have now, your best bet is to make sure you get the same tension with the new strings. That will keep the playability the same and limit the amount of adjustment you have to make. You'll also have to make some string height and intonation adjustments, but it'll be well worth it.

If you plan the strings well, the neck will eb the least of your worries.

[El-Bob]

Originally Posted by Bass Below

you'll have to file the nut, but the strings won't necessarily have less tension, depends what gauges you're using in your standard tuning. If you like the tension you have now, your best bet is to make sure you get the same tension with the new strings. That will keep the playability the same and limit the amount of adjustment you have to make. You'll also have to make some string height and intonation adjustments, but it'll be well worth it.

If you plan the strings well, the neck will eb the least of your worries.

there will be less tension on his neck stringing this way. i've NEVER seen a B with as much tension as a G. it just doesn't happen.

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by El-Bob

there will be less tension on his neck stringing this way. i've NEVER seen a B with as much tension as a G. it just doesn't happen.

Hey Bob, remember the chat the other night?
Tune an F# string up to a B and it will be plenty tense!

I have a bass setup BEAD, it will need setting up, in fact I moved my bridge back a little, so the strings thicker ends wouldnt be sitting on the saddles, giving IMO better intonation.

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by El-Bob

there will be less tension on his neck stringing this way. i've NEVER seen a B with as much tension as a G. it just doesn't happen.

Lets say for arguments sake his string tensions now are as follows: 39, 43, 46 & 47 (since most packaged sets are not uniform) and he strings his bass up with gauges that will, at his new tuning, give him tensions of approximately 39, 43, 46 & 47. It happens, very easily.

[thevintagesound]

I do have a BadAss II Bridge on it right now, theres' about another 3/4" till its at the back.

[Bass Below]

Hey vintage sound, let me know what kind of strings you have on there now, what gauges and what they're tuned to, then tell me if you like the tension, want more or less and what you're going to tune to and I'll help you figure out exactly what gauges to get to minimize the adjustments you'll have to make to your bass.

[CHILDISHGAMBINO]

I used to use a medium gauge set of 4 string strings now I use a medium guage set of 5 string strings. There is slightly and I mean very slightly less tension with the 5 string set. It's barely noticeable though.

[thevintagesound]

I believe I have a set of DR High Beams on there. But I wouldnt mind something a little darker.

[El-Bob]

Diameter Tension
Item# Note inches mm lbs kg
PSB050 G .050 1.27 49.0 22.22
PSB070 D .070 1.78 56.1 25.44
PSB085 A .085 2.16 44.9 20.36
PSB105 E .105 2.67 37.3 16.92
PSB135 B .135 3.43 34.3 15.55

what's that? the G has 15 more lbs of tension than the B?

http://www.daddario.com/DADProdDetai...D=3&Class=ACGA (just a random example, but approx. the same will be true with any string set. and yes DS, i remember:P but this is a bit different.)

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by thevintagesound

I believe I have a set of DR High Beams on there. But I wouldnt mind something a little darker.

Those are stainless steel, so switching to nickel would darken it up a bit. I took a guess and assumed you have medium gauge high beams, in which case the approximate tension you have now at standard tuning is from E-G, 40, 48, 51 & 43. An eleven pound swing from the tightest to the loosest is not a great thing, but just as I expected. Your average tension is somewhere around 45 lbs, so we'll go with that for now.

Get some nickel wound single strings from Just Strings (D'Addario XL's are what I based this tension on, and they're good quality and relatively inexpensive) in the following gauges:

B- .145 - 41.42 lbs.
E- .110 - 46.20 lbs.
A- .080 - 42.00 lbs.
D- .060 - 42.92 lbs.

That gives you an average tension of over 43 lbs, which is close to what you have now, which should mean very limited truss rod adjustment. Go with the tapered .145 and you'll also limit bridge saddle modification. You'll have to file out the nut a little (sometimes sawing the new string back and forth through the slot a few times is more than good enough) and adjust string height at the bridge. There's also always the chance that you'll need a new nut, if the slots are currently too deep, but that's usually not a big job.I jumped from a .130 to a .175 on one of my basses and did not need a new nut.

Good luck.

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by El-Bob

Diameter Tension
Item# Note inches mm lbs kg
PSB050 G .050 1.27 49.0 22.22
PSB070 D .070 1.78 56.1 25.44
PSB085 A .085 2.16 44.9 20.36
PSB105 E .105 2.67 37.3 16.92
PSB135 B .135 3.43 34.3 15.55

what's that? the G has 15 more lbs of tension than the B?

http://www.daddario.com/DADProdDetai...D=3&Class=ACGA (just a random example, but approx. the same will be true with any string set. and yes DS, i remember:P but this is a bit different.)

That's true, and that's exactly why I don't buy pre-packaged sets anymore

[El-Bob]

Originally Posted by Bass Below

That's true, and that's exactly why I don't buy pre-packaged sets anymore

hey, that happens to be the same pre-packaged set that i use and love on my 5-er

edit: also, who the **** uses a .145 B string?!?!

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by El-Bob

Diameter Tension
Item# Note inches mm lbs kg
PSB050 G .050 1.27 49.0 22.22
PSB070 D .070 1.78 56.1 25.44
PSB085 A .085 2.16 44.9 20.36
PSB105 E .105 2.67 37.3 16.92
PSB135 B .135 3.43 34.3 15.55

what's that? the G has 15 more lbs of tension than the B?

http://www.daddario.com/DADProdDetai...D=3&Class=ACGA (just a random example, but approx. the same will be true with any string set. and yes DS, i remember:P but this is a bit different.)

Not that different, I used a .135 B, and tuned it up to E, in this situation getting a .165, or .175 F# and tune it up to B, how many pounds of pressure would be on that?

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by El-Bob

hey, that happens to be the same pre-packaged set that i use and love on my 5-er

I'm glad you like it, but I'd be nervous with a 20 lb. swing in tension from one side of my neck to the other. That set is a lawsuit waiting to happen! I almost ruined one of my necks by putting together my own set from singles BEFORE I learned about calculating tension. Luckily somebody stopped me and was nice enough to teach me, which is why I'm always looking to help people out around here whenever I can. Return the favor, golden rule sort of stuff, ya know?

If you're (meaning string manufacturers) going to use a .070 as you're D string, you need to surround that with .060, .095, .115 and 1 .155 lol Oh yeah, and pray that your customer has a very strong neck on his bass!

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

Not that different, I used a .135 B, and tuned it up to E, in this situation getting a .165, or .175 F# and tune it up to B, how many pounds of pressure would be on that?

I use both, but I don't have unit weights on either of those strings so I can't do an exact calculation, but I estimated the UW's of both and calculated the tension at my tuning (G#) and the .165 was somewhere around 35 lbs. and the .175 a few pounds more. I would think it would be unwise to tune either one of those up to B, probably be well into the 50 lb. range.

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by Bass Below

I use both, but I don't have unit weights on either of those strings so I can't do an exact calculation, but I estimated the UW's of both and calculated the tension at my tuning (G#) and the .165 was somewhere around 35 lbs. and the .175 a few pounds more. I would think it would be unwise to tune either one of those up to B, probably be well into the 50 lb. range.

Right about that 49 pound G he mentioned.

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

Right about that 49 pound G he mentioned.

And one more time, exactly why I won't buy pre packaged strings. They stick G's and D's in there that simply don't match the rest of the set.