Tuning set-up on an unlined fretless

Robin UK · #1 10-19-2008, 04:17 AM

Ok, so i got my first unlined fretelss today, and i realised that the octaves weren't in tune with the harmonics by a long way, but now i'm unsure on where to tune to. It has the dots down the side for 3,5,7,9,12, but it has the usual 2 dots for the twelf fret. do i tune to the neck end dot or the bridge end dot, or in the centre? sory, maybe i'm being picky, i just want it to be setup as best i can for when i'm leaping up the top end of the neck to an octave or other 'dotted' note.

Thanks for any advice.

Aged_Clayman · #2 10-19-2008, 05:28 AM

Center, right under the 12th harmonic, IIRC.

GrooveBass · #3 10-19-2008, 07:12 AM

If you play the harmonic where the 5th fret would be on the E string, and the harmonic on the A string over the 7th fret, they should sound the same. If you the tune the open string with a tuner, you have a tuned bass. To set it up right, the harmonic over the 12th fret should have no difference from the open string on the tuner. Hope this helps.

Turnaround · #4 10-19-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin UK

i realised that the octaves weren't in tune with the harmonics by a long way, but now i'm unsure on where to tune to.

Sorry, but if the harmonics are not in tune with the octave, you are not fingering the octave at the right point. Some fretless basses have the fret lines at the position of the frets. Others put the lines at where your fingers should go - it's not the same thing. When it comes to fretless, you should not rely on the fret lines to be the definitve position - only your ears will tell you if you are playing in tune.

Robin UK · #5 10-19-2008, 06:06 PM

It's an unlined fretless, and i'm not relying on the dots down the side of the neck for general tuning, they're just useful if i'm hitting at 24th fret G or similar note in the upper octave after palying lines mainly in the lower half. also it means that if i get all of the strings tuned correctly (or even just equally) it will improve my string crossing intonation.

I will line it up with the fingered not in the centre of the two dots on each octave.

Thanks for the responces.

Turnaround · #6 10-19-2008, 06:50 PM

Oops - missed the fact that it's an UN-lined fretless. But since it's unlined, how are you determining that the octaves are not in tune with the harmonics?

Robin UK · #7 10-19-2008, 06:54 PM

Well, until aged clayman adviced me that it should be in the centre between the two dots for the octave, i didn't know how out of tune it was, but the fingered octave (correct tuning compared to the harmonic) was significantly head side of both dots to be obviously out of tune. To the extent that the harmonic was nearly 1/2 and inch from the fingered octave, which makes muscle memories and general tuning between the two fairly difficult.

Turnaround · #8 10-19-2008, 07:20 PM

The mechanics of string vibration are at play here. The correct position of the finger for the octave is very close to where the harmonic occurs. If the side dots don't agree with this, then they are in the wrong position with respect to the nut and bridge location.

You cannot relocate the nut effectively. But if the bridge is adjustable, you could try moving the saddles to compensate. But in the end, it's like playing a standup bass - it's your ears that determine if your finger is in the right place ot not.

()smoke() · #9 10-20-2008, 08:56 PM

setting the intonation for a fretless isn't much different than for a fretted

my unlined neck has the dots at the 12th fret centered (if there were a fret, it would exist between them, as mentioned)...if your harmonic occurs between the dots, your dot placement is the same as mine

just adjust the saddle so that the fingered note at the point between the dots matches the harmonic--saddle adjustment will follow the same procedure as a fretted bass, in other words, you'll have to move it forward or backward to intonate properly

Gabriel51 · #10 10-23-2008, 06:16 AM

What you are trying to do is very difficult since your finger is not as definitive as a fret. It's a fretless, the playing style is entirely different (seek the note). After may years of playing unlined boards I tested the intonation with harmonics 'briefly' after changing strings.
I just bought my first lined bass and if I look at the frets much while playing I will screw it up, I try to depress the string behind the fret. Lined basses are goofy to me at this point. Just my experience for what it is worth, good luck.

gre107 · #11 10-23-2008, 06:36 AM

Sounds like you may have to set the intonation as well. Don't rely on the markers 100% they are always more of a reference than a spot on point.

With fretless you need to make sure that the tuning and intonation of the instrument are correct first. Then you need to get used to the neck by just playing. You will find that in some areas (location of the neck and some specific notes) you will always need to play a little "off the mark" to be in tune. This is due to slight imperfections of the neck, intonation and characteristics of the strings (height, relief etc...) and the bass itself.

More often than not your technique comes into play though. How you "fret" the note is is very important. Slight adjustments with which part of your finger you play the note with will make a difference.

I've never played two identical fretless basses that played the same. You just need to get to the shed and get used to the neck. Practicing your intonation using open strings as a reference is a big help. Your ears when playing a fretless are more important than your eyes. Practice playing in the dark and not looking at the neck is a big help.

Alright I'll shut up now...!

Peace,

Gerry