What am I doing wrong!?!?

azfryguy · #1 06-30-2011, 08:27 PM

I decided to de-fret my $60 bass I found at a garage sell. I am going to tell you everything I have done so you can help me get this bass working properly. After I pulled the frets out I sanded it with 60 grit sandpaper to get all of the old nasty stain off. I used a 14" radius block just to keep the radius true. So after all the old stain was off I wiped all the dust off with a damp paper towel. I just used sink water not mineral spirits or nothing fancy. Then I jumped to 150 grit and wiped all the dust off with the same damp cloth. I did this through all the grits (60,150,220,320,400,600,800) After all that I decided to wet sand it with 800, 1200, 1500 and 2000 grit. I wiped all the wet wood dust off with a dry paper towel in between. Then I let it dry in my 115 degree Arizona garage. It took about a minute. After that I used mineral spirits and a paper towel to prep it for epoxy. I used Lactate two part Epoxy in a syringe. I mixed it up on a paper plate and applied with a paint brush. Not a foam one just one with bristles. After 95 minutes or so it was already rock hard. My problem was there were craters and it was very not even so I used the same radius block and sanded it with 60,100,300 and 800 (I had a feeling I did not use enough) again, wiping it down with the same damp paper towel as before. After all that I decided to put the epoxy directly on the fretboard and mix on the board with my fingers. I was wearing a glove and tried spreading it as even as possible. After I let is sit for an hour and 45 it looks a lot better but still has craters and spots were it did not dry like the rest of it. I want it to look as professional as HG Thor Lab. I assume I just keep sanding (150, 320, 600, 1000) with my radius block until is perfect then polish with 4000, 6000 and 8000 grit sandpaper. I am very confused and frustrated. Please help I am begging you!!!

allexcosta · #2 06-30-2011, 08:40 PM

No paragraphs, perhaps?

Marty Forrer · #3 06-30-2011, 08:45 PM

I'm a bit peturbed about the water you used. Water and guitars are not a good mix. I would have dry sanded and used a compressor to blow it clean.
I cant see any remedy other than lots of sanding and, if necessary, extra coats and more sanding.
I hope that water doesn't come back to haunt you.

berwick63 · #4 06-30-2011, 08:49 PM

I suggest trying to use either a brush or your fingers again and just try to physically work it into the spots that are pitting. Combine that with a lot of sanding, and you'll be good.

ProfGumby · #5 06-30-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Forrer

I'm a bit peturbed about the water you used. Water and guitars are not a good mix. I would have dry sanded and used a compressor to blow it clean.
I cant see any remedy other than lots of sanding and, if necessary, extra coats and more sanding.
I hope that water doesn't come back to haunt you.

I agree with you! Water, eek! The issue azfryguy is experiencing sounds an awful lot like a contaminated/unclean surface issue before finishing. The proper thing to do would be to sand off any finish and re prep the fretboard but with epoxy, sanding down to bare wood is probably not a viable option.

It is probably not the end of the world though, I say let it dry for a long time, a month or more and try another coat of epoxy. Never use water on a raw board unless you let it dry for a long time! However, it still seems to me that there could also be an issue with fretboard oil or some other contamination still on the neck....not just using water. Again, let it dry/set for a long time and go back at adding another coat.

On a $60 bass this is a good learning lesson and I hope it all works out for you.

azfryguy · #6 06-30-2011, 09:41 PM

I am sure the water will come back and haunt me haha. My dad took his air compressor to work I was using that. So I guess I will just sand it like its going out of style. I shall report back with my findings

Musiclogic · #7 06-30-2011, 10:34 PM

you used Mineral Spirits, and did not allow for the spirits to evaporate properly. Mineral spirits, has an oil content to it that is naturally occuring in the processing, while it is a very minute amount, it is still there. Water does nothing but raise the grain, no problem with that as long as you are not soaking it.

I had my shop in Phoenix many years ago, and while surface dry happens in very short order, the liquid- water and mineral spirits(deeper into the grain) will take a day to evaporate properly. Secondly, you need to apply epoxy in very thin coats(especially cheap epoxy). You must apply, let seep into grain, and squeegie most away, let cure, then sand back with 400 or 600, let stand, then repeat the process. You need to do this a minimum of 3 coats, and 5 or 6 are usually better because they are so thin. Proper prep work and time, will help you to have successful results, you cannot rush this job if you want it to look good.

I hope this helps.

Son of Magni · #8 07-01-2011, 08:18 AM

Yeah I agree, that fingerboard is loaded with contaminants. I would sand off the epoxy and let it dry for a week. Then rub down the surface with a solvent. Then wait another day before applying the epoxy.

Beauchene Implements · #9 07-01-2011, 08:25 AM

A couple thoughts:

-The craters you are experiencing sounds like you are trying to put the epoxy on too thick. I've had this problem using epoxy as a finish. Try thinner layers, multiple coats.

-You might consider different epoxy, too. System Three or West System has been used around here successfully in this application.

azfryguy · #10 07-01-2011, 01:03 PM

Good news is I am doing this with another bass neck of mine as well. As of right now my neck looks great besides those huge fisheyes. It has a very thick layer of epoxy and I only have a little epoxy left. I think I am going wipe it down with mineral spirits. Not a whole lot just a very minimal amount just to get all the oils and contaminets off. Then use the rest of my epoxy to try and fill in the fish eyes. This stuff I was using is called Loctite quick set epoxy. I do not suggest getting it. It dries in about a minute and is very hard to spread evenly across the board.

Pilgrim · #11 07-01-2011, 03:18 PM

That's no problem you can't solve by buying a fretless neck and installing it. What's done is done to that one.

JLS · #12 07-01-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azfryguy

Good news is I am doing this with another bass neck of mine as well. As of right now my neck looks great besides those huge fisheyes. It has a very thick layer of epoxy and I only have a little epoxy left. I think I am going wipe it down with mineral spirits. Not a whole lot just a very minimal amount just to get all the oils and contaminets off. Then use the rest of my epoxy to try and fill in the fish eyes. This stuff I was using is called Loctite quick set epoxy. I do not suggest getting it. It dries in about a minute and is very hard to spread evenly across the board.

Ah! No wonder...wrong stuff.

SurferJoe46 · #13 07-01-2011, 06:34 PM

Why do you go back and use a mineral spirits again? It has an oil in it that will make the fisheye even worse.

You're not painting a fence or the side of a barn, so mineral spirits are just wrong for this type of work.

Try something like denatured alcohol or MEK or even rubbing alcohol instead to get rid of that oil first.

azfryguy · #14 07-01-2011, 10:40 PM

So I got mad and just sanded it all off. My Current question is, if Bare wood is 60-8000 then oiled will flatwound strings eat through it if I play carfully? I know it depends on the wood and I pretty sure it is pine.

SurferJoe46 · #15 07-01-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azfryguy

So I got mad and just sanded it all off. My Current question is, if Bare wood is 60-8000 then oiled will flatwound strings eat through it if I play carfully? I know it depends on the wood and I pretty sure it is pine.

I'm don't understand those numbers : 60-8000, and is your neck or fretboard made of pine?

azfryguy · #16 07-01-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I'm don't understand those numbers : 60-8000, and is your neck or fretboard made of pine?

Sorry about that. I would sand with 80 grit the 150,220,320,400,600,800,1000,1200,1500,2000,4000,6 000 and lat 8000 and I think the neck is pine aswell but I meant the fretboard

bassgod0dmw · #17 07-02-2011, 06:03 AM

Something tells me that neither the neck or fingerboard is made of pine.

SurferJoe46 · #18 07-02-2011, 07:29 AM

I built a body out of some soft woods, but a neck would never hold strings if it were made from pine - and the fret board would be called 'Shredded Pine' if it were so too.

Pine is pretty, but not strong nor stable enough to use for higher tension devices like a neck, or one that you'd like to not turn into a corkscrew on ya.

azfryguy · #19 07-02-2011, 07:08 PM

Well I am no expert or anything so I am probably wrong all I can tell you is it is white and has long deep grains with knots

SurferJoe46 · #20 07-02-2011, 07:17 PM

How about some pixs and we can all guess with you?