At what point to send it back (pics)?

[rreed]

Bought an Ibanez GSR200 from the 'Friend. Yes I know I should buy from brick and mortar, yes I've poured over the setup guides, etc. and have spent the past couple of days trying to get it set up. The few local B&M shops either don't carry (cheapy) Ibanez basses or won't deal w/ you. I'm just a hobbyist fiddling around for fun not looking to pick it up seriously as I'm mostly a drummer, if that. I've just always wanted an Ibanez bass as a play toy to dink around on once in a while. I am very noob to owning a bass but been around music and instruments a decent amount most of my life.

Anyway, I knew I'd have to set it up out of the box but this has been terrible. The neck was back-bowed to the point it was in the shape of the letter "C." You didn't get so much of a buzz on the frets as you got an abrupt "bzt." Not a bzzt, or even so much as a brazzzz.. "bzt." and that was the end of the conversation. All strings were laying hard against the neck all the way down.

Using the invaluable setup guides I got started on it right away, loosening the rod a bit less than a quarter turn at a time and playing and/or letting sit for an hour at a time for it to settle before checking and loosening some more. I've probably backed the rod out more than a full turn before the neck finally started coming straight and I could breathe on a string w/ minimal buzz. The saddles came out of the box cranked nearly all the way up w/ little adjustment left and have had to remain that way to keep the buzz at the first and second frets away. Bouncing back and forth b/t a forward-bowed neck and somewhat reasonable action--that's still sky-high--or straight neck w/ saddles cranked all the way up I'm now third day into setup. The neck has a pretty steep ramp to it including the forward bow. I'd rather the neck be straight and very little ramp w/ very low action (from playing around w/ other ppl's guitars and basses) but it's just not happening w/ this bass.

Intonation has also been difficult w/ the saddle placement not making any sense, plus the E and A strings run out of adjustment before coming into tune. Usually most bass and guitars have a "stepped" setup to the saddles across the bridge but my E and G are all the way forward and still sharp while the A is near the end but does intonate correctly. D intonates just fine.

Here are pics; it's hard to get a good pic of the neck bow. I know I can straighten it w/ a slight tightening of the truss rod but then the buzz returns and I have to jack the saddles way up again to get it to stop. Then the action is so high my wrists get tired and sore (even though I've only been playing bass for two days) and I can't stand high action on any guitar, I prefer it very low. One other thing, is the neck supposed to look the this in relation to the body (slight gap at the end of the frets)? I'm a noob so I'm not sure what I'm expecting to see.

Anyway, any suggestions as to how to fix this or throw in the towel and send it back for a replacement?

[rreed]

One other thing, and I'll try to get a pic later, the strings sit awfully low in the nut but once again I'm not sure what I'm expecting to see. Could the nut be the problem or is it really just a bad neck? Or what is the prob?

[rumblethump]

If it were mine, back it would go. Seems like you have tried all the reasonable adjustments. It does sound like maybe your nut is cut too deep. Do you have a straight edge to see if you have high frets? It looks to be unplayable at the moment. Call them and get a return authorization.

[82Daion]

If your E and G are intonating sharp, you need to make the moving length of string *longer* by moving the saddle towards the back of the bridge rather than towards the front.

It looks like the neck has quite a bit of relief in the pics you posted, but it's difficult to tell.

[atheos]

Could be that the neck pocket is not straight so that the neck is angled a bit down when the truss rod is adjusted straight.

[rumblethump]

In the first 2 pictures it looks like #2 fret looks higher than the rest on both sides. Or is it just a mirage?

[rreed]

I must have been on some really good crack because I swear the first time I tried setting up the intonation on it I watched the tuner go sharp as I loosened the saddles. But today I tried pulling them back in and I'll be darned if it didn't come into tune as I pulled them back. Now they look a little more normal w/ them being for the most part "stacked" but the G did have to come back further than the D but who cares, it's supposed to be in tune not look cool. Now they "feel" better and the E has a good floppy vibration to it that I can feel through the body like most basses I've picked up before. Didn't expect setting up the intonation properly would change the feel of the instrument. Sounds a little better as well.

I'll have to look around the garage for a good straight edge but as I've been eyeing the neck like crazy for three days now all frets look even--by eye-balling anyway. In those morning pics yes it has some relief (is this also called "ramp?") along w/ some up-bow. I've since snugged the truss a little as I'd rather the neck be straight and have to deal w/ high action than have the neck bowed at all to compromise action and neck. I recall preferring guitars w/ no relief and very low action but before mine I haven't messed w/ a lot of basses but I do recall preferring the same; straight neck, little if any relief, low action. I'll fiddle w/ it for a few more days or so before pulling the trigger on an RMA. I know Ibanez makes good stuff and I picked them for their sound I love best and the feel has always been just right for me. I've played w/ a few different Ibanez's in the stores and this same model and I don't recall it being set up so high w/ so much relief. I finger pick and would consider myself not a light player, esp. being a beginner and playing metal enthusiastically I think I play kind of hard.

Yet another thing, I'm tuning a half step down(?) to all flats (Eb, Ab, Db, Gb), if I have that correctly. I hit the flat button on my tuner once, one little "b" shows up, and I tune. I don't know if that has much to do w/ anything but it's where I am. I'd like to one day string, setup, and tune this sucker down to B but that'll be quite a while from now..

[ExaltBass]

Originally Posted by atheos

Could be that the neck pocket is not straight so that the neck is angled a bit down when the truss rod is adjusted straight.

That was my thought also. Perhaps you need a shim in the neck pocket?

[rreed]

While we're at it, just by eye-balling the pics does the action look awfully high to anyone besides me (pinky accidentally holding down the G in first pic)? I know it sure as hell feels that way, and I'm not sure my dad's old fiddle strings are that high!!

[rumblethump]

Now you have the neck straight, you might try lowering the the strings at the bridge until the strings start to buzz and then raise until they don't. Your picture shows the bridge way up. Try to follow the neck radius with your bridge height adjustment.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by ExaltBass

Perhaps you need a shim in the neck pocket?

A new bass so messed up that it needs neck shimming needs to go back for replacement.

That said, this doesn't look like the problem to me here -- which appears to be mainly a comprehensively egregious setup. Whether the nut & fret build are bad is pretty quickly determined.

Nine pants on the OP, BTW.

[Widdershins]

Just out of curiosity, have you taken the neck off to inspect the pocket?

It really is difficult to tell for sure but it looks like the neck angle on the instrument is more extreme than most and/or needs to be.

Perhaps the neck has been shimmed or there is some debris from construction/assembly acting as a shim? The saddles came cranked to the top... that's a pretty good indicator something isn't right or didn't go well at the factory.

Have a look at the pocket for stickers, pieces of paper, sawdust or globs of paint at the heel. If there is anything there you might be able to pick it out or shave it down with a razor blade (paint globs) and save yourself the hassle of having to send it back.

just a suggestion

[rreed]

It's Sunday, it's cold outside, there's snow on the ground, I'm in my jammies, bite me.

Well neck being straight and lowering the action sans fret buzz is the problem. I can't lower it much at all w/o getting good buzz at first/second fret(s). I lower each string one at a time just until it starts to buzz then I just barely raise each one until it stops. Where you see the saddles now is what it takes to stop the buzz string by string. I also thought generally strings tend to follow the neck radius.. This is my first time (bass ownership) and I am a noob but having to raise the strings nearly to the point the screws fall out sounds wrong to me.

Yeah I could send it back but that would be hassle, possible cost as I don't think the 'Friend includes free return shipping, etc. I would like to at least give it a chance but given the angle of the neck (which seems to me a great part the problem) that may end up happening any way. Cheapy or not I'm not going to pay any cash to have an instrument that is at the end of its adjustment to just barely make it playable.

If the nut and/or fret builds are bad, how does one know?

[SRT80]

Hey check this out...

If it hasn't been 30 days, MF will take the bass back and they pay the return shipping.

I ordered a Squier Classic Vibe 60s bass. The A string would would buzz no matter what (action was a bit high too). I really believe it was a nut issue because I put a small piece of paper in the slot and it fixed the buzz. With that said, I decided I really didn't want/need the bass. I called MF and told them the issue I was havin' so I could get a refund.

They send me a email with a UPS shipping label. I print it out, tape it to the box and drop the bass off at a local UPS store. It was very easy and once MF got the bass, they refunded my money. Since I wasn't "satisfied", I got the refund instead of exchange.

MF has always been very easy to deal with on returns. If your 30 days isn't up, shouldn't be a problem.

I think they even offer UPS to pick the bass up at your house to, so pretty good deal either way.

Hope this helps,
Steve

[Lizooki]

I would start from scratch.
Remove the strings( or just completely loosen them), loosen the truss rod all the way, put the saddles down on the bridge.
Snug up the rod( take the slack out, so to speak), tune the strings and then start checking and setting it up.

Matt

[Widdershins]

Originally Posted by rreed

If the nut and/or fret builds are bad, how does one know?

If on visual inspection, the nut looks like any other nut you've seen on a guitar/bass then you'll be okay... for now. With the problems you're describing you would have noticed something wonky the first time you looked. I'm betting it's not the problem based on what you've said.

To check the frets you need a few different size straight edges. The idea being to span 3 at a time and if you can rock the straight edge back and forth, one of the 3 isn't level. Closer inspection or process of elimination will tell you which one is the offender.

It really does sound to me like the neck angle is causing you grief in your quest to get your ideal relief/saddle height set.

Again, this is pretty much going by the pictures and it might be just an optical illusion I'm seeing.

Do you have any precision tools handy that you could take measurements and let us folks know? It might help diagnose the problem.

I just think it would be a shame to have you end up spending more money on something that might end of being a simple fix if we can get all of the nitty gritty details.

EDIT: Beaten. and it seems MF is fairly easy to deal with

[rreed]

I've only receive the bass two days ago from MF. I've been fiddling around w/ it some more tonight, I figured out that I can lower the D and G strings a bit more which has helped my comfort w/ those two. The E and A are still a bit high but generally you don't get that high up on the neck w/ those two (at least as far as I can tell in the few tabs of old Metallica and Alice in Chains I've been playing around w/!). My high saddle gripe has been stemming mostly from getting high up on the neck w/ the D and G strings--and that I prefer low action any way--and being able to lower them has helped but it looks and to an extent feels weird w/ my upper two strings higher than the lower two. I've tweaked the truss rod a bit more to take out the up or forward bow a bit, I'm going try to bring it back straight and mess w/ the action a bit more through tomorrow. As far as the nut, I have no idea what I'm expecting to see. It's a piece of black plastic w/ four notches of increasing sizes carved into it into which the strings sit into their respective seats, I guess? It doesn't appear to be broken, other than that I have no idea what I'm expecting to see there.

Given that I've only had it a couple days I'll still give it another day or two of messing w/ setup. Stripping it down and starting from scratch doesn't sound like a bad idea, I may try that tomorrow if by mid-day or so I'm not getting good results. Might give me a chance to carefully remove the neck and see if there might not be some junk under it, good idea in theory. I'll dig around in the garage tomorrow, I think I may have something lying around that may work for checking/measuring things.

You guys are great, thanks much for being patient w/ a noob and helping out so far!!!

[The modifier]

Originally Posted by rreed

Bought an Ibanez GSR200 from the 'Friend. Yes I know I should buy from brick and mortar, yes I've poured over the setup guides, etc. and have spent the past couple of days trying to get it set up. The few local B&M shops either don't carry (cheapy) Ibanez basses or won't deal w/ you. I'm just a hobbyist fiddling around for fun not looking to pick it up seriously as I'm mostly a drummer, if that. I've just always wanted an Ibanez bass as a play toy to dink around on once in a while. I am very noob to owning a bass but been around music and instruments a decent amount most of my life.

Anyway, I knew I'd have to set it up out of the box but this has been terrible. The neck was back-bowed to the point it was in the shape of the letter "C." You didn't get so much of a buzz on the frets as you got an abrupt "bzt." Not a bzzt, or even so much as a brazzzz.. "bzt." and that was the end of the conversation. All strings were laying hard against the neck all the way down.

Using the invaluable setup guides I got started on it right away, loosening the rod a bit less than a quarter turn at a time and playing and/or letting sit for an hour at a time for it to settle before checking and loosening some more. I've probably backed the rod out more than a full turn before the neck finally started coming straight and I could breathe on a string w/ minimal buzz. The saddles came out of the box cranked nearly all the way up w/ little adjustment left and have had to remain that way to keep the buzz at the first and second frets away. Bouncing back and forth b/t a forward-bowed neck and somewhat reasonable action--that's still sky-high--or straight neck w/ saddles cranked all the way up I'm now third day into setup. The neck has a pretty steep ramp to it including the forward bow. I'd rather the neck be straight and very little ramp w/ very low action (from playing around w/ other ppl's guitars and basses) but it's just not happening w/ this bass.

Intonation has also been difficult w/ the saddle placement not making any sense, plus the E and A strings run out of adjustment before coming into tune. Usually most bass and guitars have a "stepped" setup to the saddles across the bridge but my E and G are all the way forward and still sharp while the A is near the end but does intonate correctly. D intonates just fine.

Here are pics; it's hard to get a good pic of the neck bow. I know I can straighten it w/ a slight tightening of the truss rod but then the buzz returns and I have to jack the saddles way up again to get it to stop. Then the action is so high my wrists get tired and sore (even though I've only been playing bass for two days) and I can't stand high action on any guitar, I prefer it very low. One other thing, is the neck supposed to look the this in relation to the body (slight gap at the end of the frets)? I'm a noob so I'm not sure what I'm expecting to see.

Anyway, any suggestions as to how to fix this or throw in the towel and send it back for a replacement?

From your pics, thats about where I like my action, but ive got the soft touch of a monkey on steroids, I think its bad fret work because from your picture the neck seems to have more than enough relief.

[The modifier]

Originally Posted by rumblethump

If it were mine, back it would go. Seems like you have tried all the reasonable adjustments. It does sound like maybe your nut is cut too deep. Do you have a straight edge to see if you have high frets? It looks to be unplayable at the moment. Call them and get a return authorization.

Unplayable huh, thats what you think

[akaTRENT]

at this point you return it.