What's great about the 'Badass' bridge?

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by ugly_bassplayer

I call BS on this.

I had the same thing happen, some of the stock Fender bridges are made of cast metal and are pretty flimsy. Started noticing my fretless jazz going out of tune (flat) and after about a month of dealing with that all the time it became VERY apparent that what was happening is the strings tension on the back of the bridge was bending it towards the nut. Granted, that bridge was off a MIM bass (I built the fretless myself) and all my other Fenders are USA.

I currently have three jazzes - my homemade fretless, a USA sunburst with a rosewood neck and a Geddy Lee. The Geddy came stock with the BAII. I put BAIIs on both of the other ones and hell yes it makes a difference - subtle tone difference (a little brighter), dramatic difference in sustain and harmonics. I'm guessing I'd have the same results with a different hi-mass bridge too. I also used to have a USA P-bass - the bridge on that bass was different than what came on my USA jazz (different vintages). The P was also a string through body or bridge bass, so the BAII was out of the question for that bass (as I preferred to string through the body). So, I bought a BAIII for it. Cool bridge in it's own right, but what I noticed right away was that the stock P-Bass bridge was actually heavier than the BAIII. After a couple of months I put the stock bridge back on and guess what? A little brighter, better sustain and harmonics. Sold the BAIII for more than I paid for it :-) Also eventually sold the P -- great tone, but it weighed at close to 13 pounds. Heaviest Fender bass I've ever played.

Bottom line - it's subjective. Some people don't notice a difference where as I absolutely did, but just because there is difference doesn't mean you will like it. Sounds like your deluxe may already have a Fender hi-mass bridge, if that's the case, you probably won't notice much or any difference

Someone also mentioned that Fender hasn't changed their design in almost 50 years -- true - to a point. The basic design hasn't changed, but the implementation has, like going from 2 saddles to four, notched or "grooved" saddles and different, heavier material. Compare a new USA bridge to a vintage one and you will notice a pretty heft weight difference.

Someone else mentioned about having the grooves slotted correctly in a BA bridge. This is very, very true, although a lot of players that use BA bridges will tell you they don't need to be slotted - there is some truth to that as well, an un-slotted BA bridge definately has a different feel when playing. With flats on a fretless tonewise and feel wise you *might* like unslotted saddles on the BA better, but on a fretted instrument I doubt it. If you don't have the proper tools or knowledge to slot a bridge or nut you will want to have this done professionally. Otherwise, the BAII is easy peasy to install, and I've seen some newer BAs come with grooved saddles (not cut grooves, but like three grooves made in the mold for the brass - pretty cool idea, but I haven't played one).

They are relatively cheap and easy to sell if you don't like it. I've seen chrome ones go used for as low as $35, but average more like $50 - $60. Try it, if you don't like it, go back to original, that way you can see for yourself rather than taking the word of a bunch of (shudder) bass players on a forum. Everyone knows we bass players don't have a clue what we're talking about!

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by Rockin Mike

I want sharks with lasers attached to their foreheads.

I like turtles

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by Troph

It's called a company milking a proven design that sells well, in a marketplace which places a premium on "vintage sound." It was a fantastic design for the 1950s, but hardly perfect. Leo designed a versatile instrument back then, but he didn't foresee all types of playing styles like slap.

And Leo Fender himself redesigned that bridge at least twice, once at Music Man (small changes), and again at G&L (larger changes). He obviously continued to see improvement potential.

+1

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by tbplayer59

Interesting, albeit well worn, thread. Let me pose a more general question: Does the design of the bridge have any affect on the sound of the instrument? And here's a more specific question: Is there any difference in sound between a Fender MIM bridge and a Fender MIA bridge? Same design, different places of manufacture.

Would depend on the material used to make the bridge, such as softer, lighter cast metal as opposed to brass.

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by fkh006

If you say so...

He's 100% correct, and that's purely the science of physics.

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by 4001

I'd like to see an a/b/c ect. comparison of the Badass I , II, Fender stock and whatever other aftermarket bridges using equipment that can record tone, sustain and all of that other stuff that makes up claims of this or that bridge being superior to the other so we can put an end to all of all of the opinions and use solid facts to provide a definitive answer to this question that comes up here on TB every other month.

I've got recordings somewhere of me playing my old P both with and without the BA on it. For sure a difference, only in this case it was the stock Fender bridge that was better, where as on my J basses the BA sounds better, but definately a difference.

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

You can use it to get things in tune at the 12th fret, but it hardly matters. There are still out-of-tune notes all over the place.

That depends on the bass and the neck and the amount of relief. I have some that won't completely intonate across the entire spectrum and some that will. But you can sure get a lot closer with a bridge that will adjust all (or 5, 6, etc) strings.

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by mattbass6945

so why what would be the advantage of a two saddle bridge?

The vintage vibe - that's pretty much it. I know some Tele players that won't use anything else (in their case it's a three saddle bridge), but damn are they hard to intonate.

[dvlmusic]

Only one real difference for me: sustain. I have a BAII in both my J & P and in both instances when I installed them I was taken aback by the ridiculous sustain. A huge difference from the stock bridge.

Otherwise, to me it feels more solid, and I think it looks cool. I can't discern a change in tone, if there is one it's minimal at best.

Besides: who cares? Go with what you like. Why are we arguing about something so subjective? People don't agree: that's why we live in a world filled with options.

[mattbass6945]

Originally Posted by cjp3044

The vintage vibe - that's pretty much it. I know some Tele players that won't use anything else (in their case it's a three saddle bridge), but damn are they hard to intonate.

i get the vintage vibe, but it seemed to me from a previous post, that it was implied that the two saddle was somehow better than the four saddle. that's all good if it works for you, but i don't see how it would be fundamentally better.maybe i misunderstood.

i'm with the guy who said it earlier, (i'm too lazy to look up previous post) if your bridge works fine, leave it. if you want something different, change it.

[tomlet01]

I use fender avri 75 bass
Replace stock bridge with BA2 last year
It really makes whole body vibrate better
Sustain longer, and brings out low end
Overall it's more modern sounding
I love it! (Because I want marcus sound)
After all. it depends on your taste

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by cjp3044

That depends on the bass and the neck and the amount of relief. I have some that won't completely intonate across the entire spectrum and some that will. .

Unfortunately, not possible. Again, physics says so.
Plug your bass into a chromatic tuner and play notes all over the neck. See for yourself.

[Stone Soup]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Unfortunately, not possible.

+1 It is not possible to get every note to play in tune on a fretted guitar or bass.

[Liam76]

I have "high mass" bridges on all but my Squire VM fretless. My GL came with the BA bridge, and I have Gotoh bridges on my Warmoth basses. Each of them are far different, so I can't A/B compare them. I only built chose the Gotoh bridges for cosmetic purposes, I doubt I'd hear any difference between them or a bent plate bridge.

I know a lot of tone freaks, both bassist and guitar players, and I swear they must have dog-like hearing abilities when they talk about minute differences, such as bridges, string-through, etc.

[Fourstringsonly]

Originally Posted by Rockin Mike

I want sharks with lasers attached to their foreheads.

Ya mean I really have frikin sharks with frikin laser beams attached to their frikin heads?

[jbrew73]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

You can use it to get things in tune at the 12th fret, but it hardly matters. There are still out-of-tune notes all over the place.

Ok. That i understand. Its just the nature of fretted instruments you were referencing. I thought you were saying there was something wrong with four saddle bridges.

[mattbass6945]

that was my understanding, i'm easily confused though.

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Unfortunately, not possible. Again, physics says so.
Plug your bass into a chromatic tuner and play notes all over the neck. See for yourself.

I use strobe tuners, both vintage and modern, and I have seen for myself. It is possible for a guitar or bass to be properly intonated across the spectrum, but it's not the norm.

[cjp3044]

Originally Posted by Stone Soup

+1 It is not possible to get every note to play in tune on a fretted guitar or bass.

disagree, but YMMV

[Rockin Mike]

Given the open string is tuned to concert pitch, for each half-step note above that pitch there is some string length that produces that note. Put the frets in the right spots and you have a bass that can be properly intonated.

Now, there are various opinions on exactly what frequency those notes are supposed to be, eg. "Just Temperament" versus "Equal Temperament", but if you pick one, it's possible to have a neck with the frets in the right places.

That's all true in theory. In practice, there are a lot of factors that affect the exact pitch that comes from a fretted string.
- how hard you push down on the string can increase the tension a bit since you're basically pulling it down over the fret
- how straight your fretting finger is; if not perpendicular to the fretboard it can bend the string up or down a little
- the nature of a vibrating string is to start off a little bit sharp and then settle down into pitch
- different types and brands of strings have different harmonics which can suggest to the ear a different pitch than the fundamental of the vibrating string itself. This is especially true of old roundwound strings. They can get so wolfy it's really hard to tune them. It's also especially true of lower notes, like the low B. The fundamental is so low people can't really hear it, so what they perceive is actually a note suggested by the string's overtones.

So just set the 12th fret intonation properly and tune the bass with a decent tuner and the job will get done for all real-world intents and purposes.

In my opinion, in a band situation the most productive thing we can do to sound "in tune" is to all use the same tuner. If my tuner is a little out of sync with the guitarist's tuner, then the band is going to sound a little sour.