Why are some notes so loud compared to others?

froglips · #1 03-02-2009, 11:20 AM

Some notes are a lot louder when I play them than others, even though I am hitting them with the same force. I have to intentionally not hit those notes as hard by a very noticeable amount in order to even everything out as best I can.

What is causing this?

Can I do anything about it?

Thank you for your time.

thrash4lyfe · #2 03-02-2009, 11:23 AM

Is it mainly the higher notes that do it?
If it is there's no fix, it's just like that- the string vibrates less so it isn't as loud.
(this is my understanding of it at least)

etoncrow · #3 03-02-2009, 11:31 AM

The variation in distance between the pickup and the strings can cause variation in volume between strings. Room inherant frequencies can cause some notes to sustain and gain volume to the point of causng pain. other than these situations I can't help you

froglips · #4 03-02-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrash4lyfe

Is it mainly the higher notes that do it?
If it is there's no fix, it's just like that- the string vibrates less so it isn't as loud.
(this is my understanding of it at least)

That not what I mean. Some notes resonate much louder than others. I am not talking about pitch.

froglips · #5 03-02-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etoncrow

The variation in distance between the pickup and the strings can cause variation in volume between strings. Room inherant frequencies can cause some notes to sustain and gain volume to the point of causng pain. other than these situations I can't help you

That is exactly what I am talking about (The inherent frequency thing). Nothing I can do about that?

Spiritbox · #6 03-02-2009, 11:36 AM

Have you tried tweaking you EQ? Play those knotes and raise the higher frequency nobs or sliders and listen to see if it helps!

froglips · #7 03-02-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritbox

Have you tried tweaking you EQ? Play those knotes and raise the higher frequency nobs or sliders and listen to see if it helps!

No I have not. I will try that. Thanks!

markblasco · #8 03-02-2009, 11:41 AM

Do the same notes resonate more when you play in a different room, or with a different amp? Room acoustics will do a lot to cause certain notes to sound louder, and certain notes to sound softer. Try setting up in a different room that has a distinctly different size and shape, and see if you get the same results. I find that my bass doesn't have a very strong sounding low D when played in my little home studio, but if I move it to a different room, the oomph comes back.

ThunderLizard · #9 03-02-2009, 11:46 AM

Frog-
Not sure of the physics, but I've experienced the same thing with a few basses. Some notes just jump off the neck, others kind of just thunk.
There are soooo many factors, especially volume, EQ, where you're standing in reference to your amp & speakers, etc.
Recently I've noticed this with a couple of my Fender style necks. Seems to be a dead spot around the 7th fret on the G string. Nowhere else. EQing does help even things out.
Maybe the bass gods just want to keep us on our toes.

lunarpollen · #10 03-02-2009, 12:00 PM

There are usually resonant frequencies in the room you are playing in. The instrument may also have some resonant frequencies. And of course, depending on your amp's power and the cabs you have, The lower notes on your bass may not sound as loud as notes played higher up on the neck. It takes a lot less power to make higher notes seem loud than it does to make the low notes seem as loud.

Bassgrinder77 · #11 03-02-2009, 12:19 PM

Unfortunately, some basses don't have a balanced output.
I owned a Modulus Flea Bass where the G and D strings were just plain thin and weak sounding compared with the A and E. I adjusted the pickup higher on the G side, replaced the Bartolini pickup with Nordstrand, tried different brands of strings, switched to .050 and .070 gauge G and D strings (up from .045 and .065), different amps, cabs ... the problem was most pronounced when I played with a pick. It was particularly frustrating because the bass had a fabulous setup and neck - great action, very little fret buzz, completely stable (stayed in tune) ... I finally gave up and traded it in on a Spector, which has perfect balance across strings and frets.
I also once owned a Fender P-Bass where the notes got progressively weaker on the higher frets.
On the other hand, my Rickenbacker 4001 has always had great string/fret balance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by froglips

Some notes are a lot louder when I play them than others, even though I am hitting them with the same force. I have to intentionally not hit those notes as hard by a very noticeable amount in order to even everything out as best I can.

What is causing this?

Can I do anything about it?

Thank you for your time.

Jaboof11 · #12 03-02-2009, 12:23 PM

I wonder if compressor would help?

Rando McNally · #13 03-02-2009, 12:39 PM

It's common. You can go through a series of steps to get this right.

1. First, setup and adjust your bass to your liking, adjust neck truss rod, bridge, nut (if adjustable)

2. Adjust your pickup height. This is probably what's off. Many bassists set their pickup height wrong. They dial it in for a finger rest. You might have your low side pickups sticking out for a thumb perch, and the high side low by comparison. you want to get the pickups close to the strings, but not so close as the strings touch the pickups when struck hard. This distance will vary with your playing style.

3. Eliminate variables. First and foremost, this may be in the room you are playing in, the amp you are playing on. So, try different amps, try different rooms, try different basses with your amp. Figure out, by process of elimination where the problem lies. It will be helpful to keep careful track of which combinations you have tried, and try to record something (either with a mic or on paper) so you can compare results after the fact.

4. Equalize. You can adjust the projection of certain freqs with your EQ. If you are new to equalizing, remember, don't think in terms of boosting quiet freqs, think in terms of cutting loud ones.

5. Turn up, play quieter. If this isn't working for you, or perhaps the problem is in your technique I'd suggest adjusting your gain staging so that your bass is very loud, and sending a 'hot' signal. Then try to play quietly. If you have your gains setup so that it can project with sufficient volume with a light string attack you will probably gain a great deal of subtlety to the dynamics of your playing, and be able to control varying string volume with perfect right hand technique. Turn it up loud, then play quietly.

6. If all else fails, compress. Get a decent compressor, learn how to set it up properly, and it will keep everything in line for you.

That should do it. It's a very common observation among my students. In fact, I think that most of the students I've taught bass to have brought this up in some form or another.

If it doesn't do it, then you'll have no choice but to get a fanned fret bass, like a Dingwall.

bigblondeafro87 · #14 03-02-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

It's common. You can go through a series of steps to get this right.

1. First, setup and adjust your bass to your liking, adjust neck truss rod, bridge, nut (if adjustable)

2. Adjust your pickup height. This is probably what's off. Many bassists set their pickup height wrong. They dial it in for a finger rest. You might have your low side pickups sticking out for a thumb perch, and the high side low by comparison. you want to get the pickups close to the strings, but not so close as the strings touch the pickups when struck hard. This distance will vary with your playing style.

3. Eliminate variables. First and foremost, this may be in the room you are playing in, the amp you are playing on. So, try different amps, try different rooms, try different basses with your amp. Figure out, by process of elimination where the problem lies. It will be helpful to keep careful track of which combinations you have tried, and try to record something (either with a mic or on paper) so you can compare results after the fact.

4. Equalize. You can adjust the projection of certain freqs with your EQ. If you are new to equalizing, remember, don't think in terms of boosting quiet freqs, think in terms of cutting loud ones.

5. Turn up, play quieter. If this isn't working for you, or perhaps the problem is in your technique I'd suggest adjusting your gain staging so that your bass is very loud, and sending a 'hot' signal. Then try to play quietly. If you have your gains setup so that it can project with sufficient volume with a light string attack you will probably gain a great deal of subtlety to the dynamics of your playing, and be able to control varying string volume with perfect right hand technique. Turn it up loud, then play quietly.

6. If all else fails, compress. Get a decent compressor, learn how to set it up properly, and it will keep everything in line for you.

That should do it. It's a very common observation among my students. In fact, I think that most of the students I've taught bass to have brought this up in some form or another.

If it doesn't do it, then you'll have no choice but to get a fanned fret bass, like a Dingwall.

Pretty much sums it up. Certain speakers tend to have a frequency range that is emphasized, currently the sub used for my computer speakers LOOOOVES any notes with the pitch of "D" and belts them out with great efficiency. Of course, the room is probably also emphasizing this frequency but that just goes to show how many variables there are when attempting to create a flat frequency response.

colinmk · #15 03-03-2009, 11:43 AM

Have you always played in the same room? I would try it out in a bigger room if so, bedroom size rooms are often very bad for changes in frequency loudness especially bass frequencies.

JustDavid · #16 03-03-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaboof11

I wonder if compressor would help?

Only if it's 'bass' or 'technique'. Not if it's 'room'.

Rando McNally · #17 03-03-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colinmk

Have you always played in the same room? I would try it out in a bigger room if so, bedroom size rooms are often very bad for changes in frequency loudness especially bass frequencies.

As I said earlier, it's most important to try different rooms. You should also try outside if you can.

Rando McNally · #18 03-03-2009, 08:26 PM

I didn't mean to sound like an a$$ on that last post. I kinda did though. Sorry. I just meant that trying rooms of varying size, and especially shape (i.e. different rooms) to diagnose. Smaller, bigger, L-shaped, and probably the best one to try if you can find it, a room with as few right angles as possible. Perhaps a room shaped like a rhombus?

David1234 · #19 03-03-2009, 08:38 PM

I'm a big fan of finding the problem before solving it.

With your EQ fairly flat, write down which notes on which strings seem to boom, then start experimenting:

- play the boomy notes on different strings, does the boom get worse or better?

- if your bass has multiple pickups try different combo's, do the booms get better or worse?

- move the amp to a different place in the room, even a few different place, including up high off the floor. Are the same notes being made excessively loud.

It's sometimes the case that cheap fingerboard material gives boomy notes and dead notes on a fingerboard, and a better fingerboard can make all the difference. Sometimes it's your room, your location in the room, or some resonant thing (like a mirror or cupboard door) that's the problem.

Good luck!

froglips · #20 03-04-2009, 04:55 AM

I found that a major part of the problem was that the pick up's were set a little too high when the strings were fretted. So if you bent them slightly over the pole next to it (Some poles are a little higher than others as well) it would get very loud. Some others were louder when open simply because they were already over a higher pole than the others when open.

Another issue I am still working out is the resonant frequencies within the living room that I am playing in, and the fact that I play with the amp basically right next to me, but not actually facing it for obvious reasons (Major feedback and too much sustain for you noobs out there.).

I have almost got everything worked out though, and at the very least, your suggestions definitely pointed me in the correct directions to know exaclty what I need to change in order to fix these issues.

Thanks for all of your help, folks! I do not care what all the other musicain web sites say about y'all over here, you guys and gals are truly the best!