Will removing the last three frets help the action?

capnjim · #1 05-28-2009, 09:56 PM

So I have a really nice '95 jazz in Olympic White. I can't seem to lose the fret(string) buzz. It seems that it continues up past the 12th fret. Does this not mean the buzzing in from the last frets? The neck right now has a fairly large bow (loose truss rod) just to be able to play with a low action. If I take out the last few frets, will i be able to tighten the truss rod a bit more and have less buzzing?
Or do i need to check and dress every fret.
Thanks, i did a search, but got too many basic fret removing techniques. I know how to take out frets and fill it in nicely. I never play above the 12th fret anyways.
Whaddy think?
http://s589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/normanroofis/

lowendgenerator · #2 05-28-2009, 10:00 PM

Try less relief and higher saddles before you do anything drastic like pull frets.

mwiles30 · #3 05-28-2009, 10:27 PM

I have a Jazz Bass from about the same time (mine is a '96, I believe).

Anyway, I could be a variety of things. First, for low action, you shouldn't need a ton of relief on the truss rod. If you adjust it to have a slight bow from the 9th fret up and adjust the saddles accordingly, the action should set up nicely.

It could also be the frets themselves. Try to determine which fret(s) are causing the buzz. It is a possibility that the frets are too high; this can be fixed with a couple of wacks from the blunt end of a screwdriver. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it can happen due to extreme weather/season changes (this has happened to me).

It could also be your right hand attack. I'm not here to judge and lecture about technique, but it's a good idea to analyze how your fingers/thumb/pick hit the strings. Eliminating buzz could be as simple as shifting the angle of your picking hand's force.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

capnjim · #4 05-28-2009, 10:32 PM

Thanks guys, I have tried bringing the saddles up and its really tough to play. I think I will try mwiles' suggestion. I even have a little fret punch.
I will keep you posted, I'm going to get it nice and straight with no strings, and put a small straightedge across all the frets. But wouldn't it be easier to just remove the last three or four? I'm sure the buzzing is pretty consistent from the 1st fret to the 14th fret.

Thanks for the tip about my right hand, but I have been burning thru basses like crazy searching for the right one, and none of them have buzzed like this..it may very well be a loose fret.

mwiles30 · #5 05-28-2009, 10:38 PM

Don't adjust the truss rod without the strings. And you don't want a completely straight neck either, unless you adjust the saddles AND the nut to maintain consistant string height over the entire neck.

Strings vibrate in an eliptical pattern; the rotation/vibrations widest point of movement is around the 12th fret. Maintaining slight bow allows for that.

Another thing: check and see if the nut is too low/worn. A really low nut will make any bass impossible to play without buzz.

And if you do decide to rip frets out, make sure the ones you're removing are the source of the problem. It would really suck to take out frets 17-20 to find out that its buzzing in the middle of the neck.

capnjim · #6 05-28-2009, 10:58 PM

Ouch..do you have to say "rip" the frets out? The nut is good, I only meant a straight neck to check if all the frets are level.

ByF · #7 05-28-2009, 11:57 PM

Stew-Mac sells a neat little straightedge called a Fret Rocker which is great for finding high frets. I just got one, because my Ibanez had some high frets but I couldn't figure out which ones:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting...et_Rocker.html

Ed

jschwalls · #8 05-29-2009, 12:30 AM

here's a fix..

put a shim under the neck ... the 2 screws closer to the headstock side.. put a shim about 1/2 wide between the neck and body running from screw to screw...

this will lift the neck up at a more postive angle to the body ( basically make the neck parallel to the body ) I would start with a 2 index card thick shim...

I run into this problem ALOT with Fenders... a few months ago I actually had to put a 3/16 shim in to correct this... on a NEW American Standard.. sad.

You may notice a slight drop in sustain, but it will correct your problem .. heck once you find the right amount of shim you could probably make a solid wood shim to do the same thing...now thats alot of work

capnjim · #9 05-29-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jschwalls

here's a fix..

put a shim under the neck ... the 2 screws closer to the headstock side.. put a shim about 1/2 wide between the neck and body running from screw to screw...

this will lift the neck up at a more postive angle to the body ( basically make the neck parallel to the body ) I would start with a 2 index card thick shim...

I run into this problem ALOT with Fenders... a few months ago I actually had to put a 3/16 shim in to correct this... on a NEW American Standard.. sad.

You may notice a slight drop in sustain, but it will correct your problem .. heck once you find the right amount of shim you could probably make a solid wood shim to do the same thing...now thats alot of work

Should I put the shim just between the screws? Wouldn't it be better to put a shim all the way across and cut 2 holes for the screws?

vejesse · #10 05-29-2009, 12:33 PM

Whoa. Hey JLS, check this out. Yeah, hit the frets with a blunt screwdriver, then shim the neck. That should take care of it.

You need to level the last few frets. Make sure they're not loose then create a littlle 'fallaway' at the last four or five frets. Just take it to somebody who know what they're doing.

king_biscuit · #11 05-29-2009, 12:40 PM

You need to take the bass to someone who knows what they are doing... seriously, you are on your way to making the problem much worse!

ErebusBass · #12 05-29-2009, 12:40 PM

With the shim: just try it, see what it does. It's a completely reversible mod. Worked wonders with my SX.

As for ripping frets out: Take it to someone who knows what they're doing before you do anything drastic like that. I've never heard of fretbuzz being so bad that frets actually had to be removed. Play with the relief a bit more.

king_biscuit · #13 05-29-2009, 01:03 PM

I am not sure how adding a shim is going to help fret buzz above the 12th fret. It sounds like the OP may have a little bit of ski jump up there, and tightening the truss rod will help with that; however, it will cause buzzing in the lower register. Bottom line, the bass needs a look over from someone who knows what they are looking at! Probably it needs a shim, fret leveling in the upper register, and adjustment of the truss rod for proper relief; however, based on the OP's initial question, there is no way he is qualified to do any of that -- no offense op, neither are many many others on TB.

vejesse · #14 05-29-2009, 01:03 PM

Check it out. The reason you shim a neck is to change the neck angle. This gives you more travel with the bridge saddle height adjusters. Unless you make a neck shim the covers the whole neck pocket area, a neck shim can actually make the last few frets stick up even higher as the heel of the neck gets tweaked. Also, changing the neck relief is not going to make a rising tongue go away. The truss rod is going to have no effect up there other than to change the overall string height.

**Joshua** · #15 05-29-2009, 01:08 PM

Rule #1 people...

stflbn · #16 05-29-2009, 01:12 PM

If you're concerned about your frets you really shouldn't be 'whacking on them' with a screwdriver or anything else other than a rubber mallet, and then only if you're ready to accept the fact that you may in fact screw them up.

Filing down the last few frets some could help out greatly. The StewMac fretrocker will tell you a lot. A StewMac Diamond Fret Leveler will allow you to slowly control the level-ness of the frets, but there again... you need to be prepared that if you haven't done it before you likely 'may' screw something up.

Or... you could just take it to someone who knows what the heck they're doing and pay them a similar amount to what the tools will cost to attempt to do it yourself rather than listening to some yahoo's on a web forum with no description but 'whack on them with a screwdriver'.

IMHO

.

king_biscuit · #17 05-29-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stflbn

If you're concerned about your frets you really shouldn't be 'whacking on them' with a screwdriver or anything else other than a rubber mallet, and then only if you're ready to accept the fact that you may in fact screw them up.

Filing down the last few frets some could help out greatly. The StewMac fretrocker will tell you a lot. A StewMac Diamond Fret Leveler will allow you to slowly control the level-ness of the frets, but there again... you need to be prepared that if you haven't done it before you likely 'may' screw something up.

Or... you could just take it to someone who knows what they're doing and pay them a similar amount to what the tools will cost to attempt to do it yourself.

You are not going to see ski jump with a fret rocker, it's not very easy to level properly, and even if the op got it leveled properly, he would still have to properly recrown the frets and polish them out -- and this is assuming ski jump is the problem. He is not going to get this right, and nothing good is going to come of him "working" on his bass any further. Why encourage him at this point?

Zooberwerx · #18 05-29-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vejesse

Check it out. The reason you shim a neck is to change the neck angle. This gives you more travel with the bridge saddle height adjusters. Unless you make a neck shim the covers the whole neck pocket area, a neck shim can actually make the last few frets stick up even higher as the heel of the neck gets tweaked. Also, changing the neck relief is not going to make a rising tongue go away. The truss rod is going to have no effect up there other than to change the overall string height.

A voice of reason in the wilderness.

You really need to take this to a pro for evaluation, adjustment, and/or repair. The rising tongue or "ski jump" is all too common with bolt-on fender (and fender-esque) instruments. I've heard two dozen different explanations...all plausible...as to why this occurs. Sometimes, all that's required is a partial fret leveling / dressing. In extreme cases, I've seen partial FB re-surfacing and re-fret jobs.

Riis

capnjim · #19 05-29-2009, 02:04 PM

OK, thanks for the help..I am going to try a few things. I do own several fretting tools and have dressed, removed, installed frets before. I enjoy working on my own instruments and have been doing it for many years.
I guarantee, I will not make it worse.
I'm just looking for a bit of advice. For now, I'm going to try a straight edge and if any frets are high, I will very gently try to tap them in using a proper fretting hammer. I'll try to dress the last few frets and then I'll try a shim.
Anything I'm gonna do is going to make it better. I don't have anywhere I can take it whom I would trust.

BigOldHarry · #20 05-29-2009, 02:15 PM

PLEK it!