YASQ...

**RedsFan75** · #1 07-23-2008, 12:58 PM

Yet Another Setup Question

I've set up my P and my J, a couple 5's as well as several others basses so this is not my first setup, just my most frustrating...

I've got a Greg Bennett Fairlane FN 5, 5 string 34" scale, nice bass overall, love the tone and weight... Bought used, had a set of Bass Boomers on it. Setup wasn't too bad, but action was HIGH...

So I changed strings to a set of Nickle Lo-riders with a .130 B and start my setup.

Here's my problem, Action is still high to prevent buzzing. A lot higher than I like, and higher than any other bass or 5 String I've had or played. Measures around 8/32 at the 17th fret on the B string. So far I've tried my relief at .014 down to .010. You follow all the sites and for a 15" radius most suggest the .010, so that what I'm at right now. Willis says Credit card, Ok, so I tried that...

It's not buzzing on the open strings, it's buzzing when fretted and it's always buzzing toward the bridge above the 12th fret. I don't even have to dig in hard to get a buzz. So by Willis site that tells me to take relief out, and I do that, so I'm constantly tweaking for days now...

So am I over thinking, over analyzing? Do I just need to leave the action high? Or need to shim the neck, or... ???

Needed to post as I feel like I'm making myself nuts just chasing a setup!

therex · #2 07-23-2008, 01:30 PM

maybe you have too much relief

slyjoe · #3 07-23-2008, 03:16 PM

This doesn't sound like a relief problem if you've already adjusted the relief to the specs you mentioned above. 8/32" is a LOT. I don't think I could play with 1/4" action.

When I couldn't get the action down I shimmed the neck (mostly when adding a thicker bridge). Or, you may need to see if you have frets too high.

Edit: Re-reading this, a question popped up - maybe I misunderstand. Is it buzzing when you fret above the 12th fret or when you fret anywhere and the buzz is coming from above the 12th fret?

**RedsFan75** · #4 07-23-2008, 04:25 PM

It's buzzing when I fret anywhere, but the buzz is coming above the 12th.

Fret wise, it's had a level and crown done, so the frets are in really good shape.

It does have a high mass bridge on it, but it's the factory bridge, so I didn't consider it being too high.....

GeoffByrne · #5 07-23-2008, 05:03 PM

Take relief out of the neck, opposite shim the neck (i.e. raise the nut end - put some sandpaper at the end of the neck-pocket furthest away from the bridge) and lower the bridge somewhat.

**RedsFan75** · #6 07-27-2008, 07:16 PM

Did all these things, Took the relief, out, opposite shimmed the neck and lowered the bridge as best I could, and I've still got it.

I also double checked the fret level, and I can find no high frets, so to keep it from buzzing when fretted I have to have the action around a 1/4" high!!!

Argh!

Turnaround · #7 07-27-2008, 09:23 PM

I'll first take this opportunity to explain why I disagree with the advice given by Mr. Willis. It's not that his advice is wrong - it's just incomplete. If you have fret buzz above the 12th fret but not down around the third, you may have too much relief. But removing relief will not do anything to correct fret buzz in such a case. Sometimes removing relief and simultaneously raising the string height will fix the problem, but even that is is simplistic attempt to cure a complex problem. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for a comprehensive methodical approach to dealing with this kind of problem. And, for that matter, there is no better guide on such an approach as the forum moderator, Joshua. You may get lucky with a shortcut, but the end result is not likely to be as good as it could be.

Now to the problem at hand. It sounds like a classic ski-jump problem, where the neck has a lift where it meets the body - mostly happens with bolt on neck. Is yours a bolt-on? Set the neck as flat as possible with the trussrod and check with a straightedge long enough to go the full length of the fingerboard. A short "fret rocker" won't do - it needs to be a full-length straightedge. It's best to check this with the strings on and up to pitch. I recommend loosening the strings before adjusting the trussrod though.

BTW, where is the trussrod nut - at the headstock or the body end of the neck? I find it makes a difference with the relief curve in the neck.

Your problem may not be a ski-jump. But we need to rule that out.

GeoffByrne · #8 07-28-2008, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsFan75

Did all these things, Took the relief, out, opposite shimmed the neck and lowered the bridge as best I could, and I've still got it.

I also double checked the fret level, and I can find no high frets, so to keep it from buzzing when fretted I have to have the action around a 1/4" high!!!

Argh!

There's something seriously out here. Without having the instrument in my hands, it's impossible to say further, but I agree with the posting above.

**RedsFan75** · #9 07-28-2008, 09:41 AM

As to the Willis site, Basically I was reading everything I could find, to try and figure out what was going on. As I said, I've set up a quite a few before but this one was driving me nuts! No matter what I did I couldn't get the buzz out. But the opposite shim came closest, and got me to a string height that was much closer than normal.

So Yes it's a Bolt on, and I was beginning to feel that maybe it was acting a bit like a 'Ski Jump' although I didn't really know what to call it, but now that you say Ski Jump it's a perfect description.

Truss Rod is at the headstock, and I've got a straight edge long to test it.

I was thinking of taking off the neck and just testing to see how flat and level it was, but I'm not sure how well it would show if not attached to the body.

So this is my first experience with this problem, what am I looking forward to? How do I make sure that's what's going on? etc.. Thanks so much

Turnaround · #10 07-28-2008, 05:18 PM

Start by getting the neck as flat as possible end-to-end with the strings up to pitch (loosen the strings when adjusting the rod, then bring them back up to pitch). Once flat, loosen the trussrod about and eighth of a turn and check the relief. I like to see about .0012 to .0015 of relief at the deepest point. Keep tweaking until you get this value. Don't just check at the half-way point of the neck - check at one or two frets on either side. On my MIM P-Bass, the maximum relief occurs at the 9th fret, while my MIM jazz has the most relief at the 5th.

Then adjust the bridge saddle height. Lower the saddles until you get a bit of buzz from the 12th fret up, then raise them a bit to eliminate that buzz.

If this still isn't working for you, then reset the relief so that you get 12-15 thou of relief while simutaneously fretting the string at the first fret and the fret where the neck meets the body (use the string as a straightedge). Readjust the bridge as above.

Let us know how it goes.

slyjoe · #11 07-28-2008, 07:33 PM

I think you may have an extra zero in there.

Turnaround · #12 07-29-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe

I think you may have an extra zero in there.

Yup. But it's nothing.

.012 and .015 are correct. Thanks for the correction.

**RedsFan75** · #13 07-29-2008, 06:30 PM

as the NFL says on Instant replay....

"Upon Further Review"

Turnarounds recommendation got me looking at the neck joint a little closer.

Quote:

It sounds like a classic ski-jump problem, where the neck has a lift where it meets the body - mostly happens with bolt on neck. Is yours a bolt-on? Set the neck as flat as possible with the trussrod and check with a straightedge long enough to go the full length of the fingerboard. A short "fret rocker" won't do - it needs to be a full-length straightedge. It's best to check this with the strings on and up to pitch. I recommend loosening the strings before adjusting the trussrod though.

So here's what I've done in the last bit...

I loosened the strings and took all the relief out of the neck, tested it with my straight edge and it was dead straight. The fretboard and maple matched perfectly...

I was even more perplexed, because it sounded like the Ski Jump condition mentioned. Since the opposite shim had helped some, but not fully, I began to look at neck body joint even closer. and I saw that the neck and body weren't on a level plane at the joint. So I measured from the body to the maple edge with my engineer's rule. The maple edge at the point closest to the Pickups were 4/32nds and about 2.5/32nds near toward the nut. So I checked my J and my P and they were pretty level.

So one more time I take the neck off. I had noticed that the pocket had been worked on before and as I looked closer it was like it had been ground with a dremel or something like that. So I measured the inside of the pocket and sure enough, deep into the pocket is shallower than the part farther away.

So I began to build up the neck pocket with a series of shims, until I had the neck pocket level throughout. I put the neck back on, tuned to pitch and began the setup one more time.

I know this might not be the answer for every bass, but it was for this one. So now I have my relief at .014, and the Low B is set at 5/32nds with no buzz and the other strings decreasing appropriately. It plays much better and cleaner, only buzzing if I dig in too hard!

Thanks to everyone for all the advice, and if I could recommend anything out of this, fully inspect every part of the instrument!

It will save a lot of frustration!