"Zeroing Out" a New Badass II Bridge

selowitch · #1 03-01-2009, 03:16 AM

I just put a new Badass bridge and am preparing to set up the bass. With all four the saddles moved all the way toward the neck end of the base plate, it looks "wrong" (I haven't done the intonation step yet, of course). Is it best too move the saddles closer to the middle before I start, that way I have room to adjust in either direction?

Projectile · #2 03-01-2009, 03:36 AM

It doesn't matter. They are going to end up in the same place regardless. I would start in the middle just because it's less likely you will have to move them as far if you start from a central position.

selowitch · #3 03-01-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Projectile

I would start in the middle just because it's less likely you will have to move them as far if you start from a central position.

... that's what I was saying.

Zooberwerx · #4 03-01-2009, 10:01 AM

You'll be better off starting off with the saddles in the rear position and advancing them forward (toward the nut) as you "dial-in" intonation. Any witness points (slight bends in the string where it comes in contact with the bridge saddle) will fall behind the saddle. I'd highly recommend this being its a fresh set-up.

Riis

selowitch · #5 03-01-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

You'll be better off starting off with the saddles in the rear position and advancing them forward (toward the nut) as you "dial-in" intonation. Any witness points (slight bends in the string where it comes in contact with the bridge saddle) will fall behind the saddle. I'd highly recommend this being its a fresh set-up.

Riis

I'll try that, but as for the witness points, it seems they are already behind the saddle and not in front of it because of the tension all along the string between the nut and the saddle, unless I'm missing something. Another thing that helps is the saddles are pre-grooved and there are more than one slot per saddle, so I can pick which one is best for my string spacing, and it looks like this tends to eliminate witness points, too, assuming I perceive the situation correctly (which I might not).

Zooberwerx · #6 03-01-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selowitch

I'll try that, but as for the witness points, it seems they are already behind the saddle and not in front of it because of the tension all along the string between the nut and the saddle, unless I'm missing something. Another thing that helps is the saddles are pre-grooved and there are more than one slot per saddle, so I can pick which one is best for my string spacing, and it looks like this tends to eliminate witness points, too, assuming I perceive the situation correctly (which I might not).

Can't eliminate witness points. Once created, they remain even under 50 lbs of string tension. We can to some degree keep them out of the vibrating string path. Here's the worse thing you can do: Move the saddles to the full forward position and tune to pitch. Intonation will be sharp so you draw back the saddle...one witness point now in front of the saddle. Retune and recheck intonation. Still sharp so you retract the saddle...two witness points now in front of the saddle. So forth and so on

A witness point can occur any time a string comes in contact with a fixed point although the severity varies bass-to-bass, case-to-case. The original BA bridges (no grooves or slots)were the worst!

Riis

selowitch · #7 03-01-2009, 10:39 AM

Geez, this makes me want to abandon the Badass altogether.

Zooberwerx · #8 03-01-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selowitch

Geez, this makes me want to abandon the Badass altogether.

Oh, no no no! Great bridge design. Any bridge will leave some degree of footprint on a string. However, I still strongly suggest you attempt intonation as I described, with the saddles in the fully retracted position. I find set-ups are kinda fun and I'm always learning something new as how strings interact with different basses.

Enjoy the project! BTW, are you using a decent tuner?

Riis

selowitch · #9 03-01-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Oh, no no no! Great bridge design.

OK, OK, brief moment of panic there. I'll stick with it.

Quote:

However, I still strongly suggest you attempt intonation as I described, with the saddles in the fully retracted position.

Will do. What I really like about the Badass is its relative simplicity. You don't constantly feel uncertain, like you're missing something. It as close to a big-hunk-o'-metal-with-four-holes-in-it as you're going to get. :-) I also couldn't bring myself to drill holes in a brand new bass à la the Schaller 467 or the Gotoh 203.

Quote:

Enjoy the project! BTW, are you using a decent tuner?

I dunno, do we consider the Boss TU-80 to be decent?

Zooberwerx · #10 03-01-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selowitch

OK, OK, brief moment of panic there. I'll stick with it. Will do. What I really like about the Badass is its relative simplicity. You don't constantly feel uncertain, like you're missing something. It as close to a big-hunk-o'-metal-with-four-holes-in-it as you're going to get. :-) I also couldn't bring myself to drill holes in a brand new bass à la the Schaller 467 or the Gotoh 203.
I dunno, do we consider the Boss TU-80 to be decent?

Yeah, that's a nice tuner. TBers swear by them. I'm using a big-a** Peterson but, if ever needing a replacement, I'd probably go with a Turbo Tuner.

Riis

selowitch · #11 03-01-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Yeah, that's a nice tuner. TBers swear by them. I'm using a big-a** Peterson but, if ever needing a replacement, I'd probably go with a Turbo Tuner.

Riis

Going to need another cord so I can use the tuner "inline," since current amp doesn't have a "Tuner Out" jack. Although now that I mention it, I would need that second cable anyway.

Zooberwerx · #12 03-01-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selowitch

Going to need another cord so I can use the tuner "inline," since current amp doesn't have a "Tuner Out" jack. Although now that I mention it, I would need that second cable anyway.

Word of caution: Some tuners are notorious "tone-suckers" when used in line. If not using the effects loop, you can use the effects "send" (or any preamp out) for a signal to the tuner.

Riis

selowitch · #13 03-01-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Word of caution: Some tuners are notorious "tone-suckers" when used in line.

Would my "nice" tuner by included in "some"?

SwamiRob · #14 03-01-2009, 02:01 PM

He already said that alot of the guys on here sing it's praises didn't he?

I don't get why the pre filed BAs would be better though. Probably wrong, but having all that sideward tension looks like a bad idea to me, I'm sure it's not otherwise they wouldn't get away with offering them, there's something kinda wrong looking about stings being strung like that though.

Projectile · #15 03-02-2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selowitch

... that's what I was saying.

No, you said you were considering starting in the center to give "room to adjust in either direction," Your statement implies that if you started at one end the saddle there might not be enough "room" to make the needed adjustment, which is a complete misunderstanding of how the intonation process works. If that's not what you meant, than you need to choose your words better, because I was definitely NOT saying the same thing.

SwamiRob · #16 03-02-2009, 06:24 AM

Plus he put "Is it best too move the saddles closer to the middle before I start, that way I have room to adjust in either direction?" as a question not a statement of intention. There wasn't any need for the tone regardless.

Baker69 · #17 03-02-2009, 06:39 AM

I always understood that as a starting point you take the 1st (say G string on a 4 string bass) and set the distance between the centre of the saddle and the 12th fret at half the Scale length of the bass. (Nut to 12th fret distance = half the scale length also).

Once you've done that you can slightly tweak it either way to get the exact intonation and then carry on with the other strings. I believe as a guide you would draw back the saddle on the D String from the G string saddle by approximately the same distance in mm as the thickness of the D string.....and so on with the other strings.

selowitch · #18 03-02-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Projectile

No, you said you were considering starting in the center to give "room to adjust in either direction," Your statement implies that if you started at one end the saddle there might not be enough "room" to make the needed adjustment, which is a complete misunderstanding of how the intonation process works. If that's not what you meant, than you need to choose your words better, because I was definitely NOT saying the same thing.

Although it seems I may have misunderstood the mechanics, the suggestion to start with the saddles in the middle is exactly what I began the thread by suggesting. The course of action is identical even if the description of the physics is not.

Baker69 · #19 03-02-2009, 08:21 AM

Following my recent posting, please see the following extract from the Fender Web site;

"INTONATION (ROUGHING IT OUT)

You can preset the basic intonation of your guitar by taking a tape measure and measuring from the inside of the nut to the center of the 12th fret (the fret wire itself; not the fingerboard). Double that measurement to find the scale length of your guitar. Adjust the first-string bridge saddle to this scale length, measuring from the inside of the nut to the center of the bridge saddle. Now adjust the distance of the second-string saddle back from the first saddle, using the gauge of the second string as a measurement. For example, If the second string is .011" (0.3 mm), you would move the second-string saddle back .011" (0.3 mm) from the first saddle. Move the third saddle back from the second saddle using the gauge of the third string as a measurement. The fourth-string saddle should be set parallel with the second-string saddle. Proceed with the fifth and sixth saddles with the same method used for strings two and three".

selowitch · #20 03-02-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker69

You can preset the basic intonation of your guitar by taking a tape measure and measuring from the inside of the nut to the center of the 12th fret (the fret wire itself; not the fingerboard). Double that measurement to find the scale length of your guitar.

Since we know already that the scale of my bass is 34", can this step be skipped? Or is the "scale length of your guitar" in this context actually the "effective scale length" given the current setup?

Oh, and another thing I'm wondering about with reference to the Badass: the closer the saddles get to the rear end of the bass, the more tense the springs become. As a practical matter, it doesn't seem like you could force them much further back than the space just over or ahead of the mounting screws in any case -- am I right about this?