bass tone on Laughing (If I Could Only Remember My Name)

[elwood]

Anyone have any light on how to get the bass tone on this song? (the version from the David Crosby album). Don't have the album, so I don't even know if if was Casady or Lesh or who played this track, or if I'm even hearing the bass clearly, with all the guitar work going on, but it's really full bottom with a percussive element- something extra that almost sounds like a P but not exactly. So much for my descriptive ability. I just really like it. Can anyone help me out?
thanks-

[darkblack99]

mixonline.com

Though the master tape box for “Laughing” is dated “11/3/70,” Barncard suspects that the tune's basic track was actually cut in September '70 and that the later date is when it was completed. Whatever the case, that initial tracking session comprised Crosby and Garcia playing electric guitar (probably a hollow-body Gretsch and a Gibson SG, respectively), Lesh on his original Alembic bass and Kreutzmann on drums.
...
...Lesh's beefy bass sound came from a combination of mics on two different amps — one large for more low end and a smaller one for the high-end part of his sound.”

Great album...Hope this helps.

[elwood]

Great info, mucho thanks!

This confirms my worst fears about the gear, though. Expensive & experimental.

[darkblack99]

Originally Posted by elwood

Great info, mucho thanks!

This confirms my worst fears about the gear, though. Expensive & experimental.

You're welcome.

I think you could get around some of the issues though...Play with a plectrum into a signal splitter, then biamped to high and low output...And technically, the instrument used isn't an Alembic, but either an EB3 or a Starfire with Alembic electronics.

Probably doable...1970 tech, well within reach of the average ratepayer.

[elwood]

Possibly a Lakie hollowbody with a dark star, since they were modeled after the Starfire pickup mods mentioned in your link.

The electronics would be problematic, though, since that's not available from Alembic (and if it were, they'd be pretty pricey). I'd have to say Lesh/The Dead were the biggest rock gearheads of all time. I saw them in RFK stadium in ~1972 where they had stacks and stacks of individual speakers (this maybe was the wall of sound?) and I seem to remember counting 26 cabinets in the tallest stacks. 70s tech or not, it is the clearest loud sound reproduction I've ever heard in my life.

[jerry]

Originally Posted by elwood

The electronics would be problematic, though, since that's not available from Alembic (and if it were, they'd be pretty pricey). I'd have to say Lesh/The Dead were the biggest rock gearheads of all time. I saw them in RFK stadium in ~1972 where they had stacks and stacks of individual speakers (this maybe was the wall of sound?) and I seem to remember counting 26 cabinets in the tallest stacks. 70s tech or not, it is the clearest loud sound reproduction I've ever heard in my life.

Even people who would want to diss the Dead, would have to give props to them for concert sound development, and instrument development. They had a hell of a lot of forward thinkers hanging around!

[darkblack99]

Originally Posted by elwood

Possibly a Lakie hollowbody with a dark star, since they were modeled after the Starfire pickup mods mentioned in your link.

The electronics would be problematic, though, since that's not available from Alembic (and if it were, they'd be pretty pricey).

Yeah, if you went with the quadrophonic option that Alembic provided for Phil, things would get complicated...The amp equation might have just gotten simpler, though:

more on the American Beauty sessions:

"What I was told at the time," Barncard says, "was that Phil wanted a good bass sound and that was going to make the difference. 'Get a good bass sound, Steve, and we've got the Grateful Dead.'" Barncard was in luck: Lesh used the same two-amp bass rig as the Airplane's Jack Casady, with whom he'd worked, and he managed to satisfy the ever-discriminating Mr. Lesh with minimal experimentation or fussing.

That may narrow down the power and output end of things, since American Beauty and IICORMN were being tracked at the same time...Maybe if you throw a SF - 2 Super Filter into the chain...

Originally Posted by elwood

I'd have to say Lesh/The Dead were the biggest rock gearheads of all time. I saw them in RFK stadium in ~1972 where they had stacks and stacks of individual speakers (this maybe was the wall of sound?) and I seem to remember counting 26 cabinets in the tallest stacks. 70s tech or not, it is the clearest loud sound reproduction I've ever heard in my life.

Ah, the Wall of Sound, a.k.a. 'my home stereo'.

I would have hated to be 'third roadie from the right' humping that system along the highways and byways.

[elwood]

Originally Posted by jerry

Even people who would want to diss the Dead, would have to give props to them for concert sound development, and instrument development. They had a hell of a lot of forward thinkers hanging around!

They were definitely the bleeding edge. I remember the buzz about Alembic, and I didn't play bass then, and was on the other side of the country. I heard rumours to the effect the Dead didn't make money on touring because of the equipment costs, etc. associated with their setup. I can't imagine what it took to roady all that gear.

[elwood]

Originally Posted by darkblack99

Ah, the Wall of Sound, a.k.a. 'my home stereo'.

I would have hated to be 'third roadie from the right' humping that system along the highways and byways.

Yeah, that was some serious work. I’m sure I was hearing the Wall of Sound. Also, I had no idea at the time, but it had to be the quadrophonic system on bass. BTW, The best I can remember, now that I think about it, the RFK concert (Allman Bros./Dead) was around June ’73 or '74. I have no idea what bass was being used then. The set list was essentially the same as the Europe ’72 album.

Maybe the biamping is what gave the upper register aspect to the tone on Laughing its distinction.

The SF-2 looks really interesting. Wonder if anyone on the board here has ever owned one.

[darkblack99]

From Wikipedia

The Wall of Sound used 89 300 watt solid state and three 350 watt tube amplifiers to produce 26,400 total watts RMS of audio power.
It was capable of producing acceptable sound at a quarter mile, and excellent sound for up to six hundred feet, when the sound began to be distorted by wind.
It was the largest portable sound system ever built (although "portable" is a relative term). Four semi trucks and 21 crew members were required to haul and set up the 75 ton Wall.
...
The rising cost of fuel and personnel, as well as friction among many of the newer crew members (and associated hangers-on), contributed to the band's 1974 "retirement." The Wall of Sound was disassembled, and when the Dead began touring again in 1976, it was with a more logistically practical sound system.

The big picture, Vancouver, BC 1974

By '74 Phil had his first Alembic, I believe it was the Osage Orange, but hardcore Deadheads feel free to correct me if wrong.

[elwood]

Thirty some years down the road, my recollection on the numbers in the WOS is fuzzed somewhat, but man, that's still incredibly impressive.

Wow- that dudepit thread is a cornucopia of obscure info about Lesh's basses. Anybody with even a passing interest would probably get a kick out of reading it.

I remember the 2-day- William and Mary Dead concert mentioned in the thread, but didn't see it- I lived in that area most of my life.
edit- I checked the deadbase and the concert I saw was in June '73. The one in the dudepit thread was Sept '73. Interesting, as Wiki was quoting '74 as the year of the WOS. I can't imagine what would have been left out of the system I saw:

From Wikipedia:
Though the initial framework and a rudimentary form of the system was unveiled in February 1973 (ominously, every speaker tweeter blew as the band began their first number), the Grateful Dead did not begin to tour with the full system until a year later in 1974.