Black Flag and Flipper are pretty jazzy.

soundgardenis · #1 10-28-2010, 09:42 PM

I've always kind of been into jazz but because I'm self taught and I'm not able to read music I never really dove into that territory because I felt kind of outside that realm of music. I always felt kind of insignifigant. But listening to Black Flag and Flipper is cool because they're a punk rock band but they incorporate alot of jazz into their tunes. I just got Black Flag's album My War. I love it. Especially the last three tunes that are slow and heavy. I'm a fan of the blues for sure and I enjoy it when Tony Iommi launches into a jazzy riff when he plays with Sabbath. So I've been exposed to jazz before but Black Flag and Flipper take it to a whole new level. I know the Velvet Underground were kind of jazzy but in my opinion they are not as jazzy as Black Flag and Flipper.

Henry Rollins has a pretty deep knowledge of music. I mean he is kind of eccentric but hes a smart guy. He compares Greg Ginns guitar playing to Ornette Coleman. I think thats cool. I mean the guy is super talented. Not only did he play some sick riffs on My War but he also has some really cool bass lines.

I find that a lot of jazz bass lines are very intricate but on Flippers album Gone Fishin the bass lines are simple but they really swing.

I'm really stoked I found out about these guys. People assume and I know I did that because they were punk rock they were medicore musicians. But they have some really deep, lyrical, music on their albums. I love it.

bongomania · #2 10-28-2010, 09:46 PM

The original sax player in Flipper, Ward Abronski, is a good friend of mine. He is still punk as ####, but he plays saxes, flute, and other woodwinds, and sight-reads. The guy's an animal!

soundgardenis · #3 10-28-2010, 10:43 PM

Dude that is so cool. If you get a chance please tell your friend I think his sax playing is fantastic on Gone Fishin. I'm listening to it as I type right at this very moment. Its tasty. He knows when to hold back and when to let go. Really cool.

I don't expect too many people to reply in this thread. I've been posting ads on craigslist trying to jam with a guitar player. I stated that I want to play punk rock, but not the poppy blink 182 nonsense and I've gotten a total of 0 replies. I stated a few of my influences including flipper and black flag and I guess nooone gives a crap about those bands anymore except a select few.

Deluge Of Sound · #4 10-28-2010, 10:55 PM

If you dig the Sax in a not-quite-punk context, check out Fatso Jetson's newest record, Archaic Volumes.

**pacojas** · #5 10-29-2010, 09:03 AM

Flipper,... Sex Bomb,... my favorite!!!

s_mcsleazy · #6 10-29-2010, 09:05 AM

im a punk and i listen to jazz. it can be quite intresting alot of the time

but listening to gregs guitar playing you can tell hes into jazz

BassBrass · #7 10-29-2010, 12:29 PM

Hearing Gang of 4 in a "record shop" brought me back to rock from 10 years of jazz. (well, jazz like Miles' On The Corner...)

DreadRaver · #8 10-29-2010, 12:48 PM

Thanks for the reminder - yeah, I heard Flipper on college radio 20 years ago but never owned a recording of theirs.
So, I just looked 'em up on Youtube and listening now and Totally Diggin' it!

russellmania · #9 10-29-2010, 12:58 PM

You need to get The Process of Weeding out dude. Instrumental Black Flag with alot of Albert Ayler/Ornette Coleman influence running through it.

tehbassist · #10 10-29-2010, 01:02 PM

Gang of Four for the win...

CaptainWampum · #11 10-29-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehbassist

Gang of Four for the win...

+1

dokazaado · #12 10-29-2010, 01:15 PM

OP - check out The Stooges album Funhouse.
some cool sax playing on that.

I'll think of some more here in a minute...

dmusic148 · #13 10-29-2010, 01:17 PM

Love, love LOVE that stuff...none of my friends can understand it. Black Flag is maybe my favorite band ever, right behind the 50's-60's Miles Davis bands. Weird? Maybe.
Also have 'Generic Flipper' - great stuff.

I'm not sure any of it really dips into what I'd consider Jazz territory, but that's simply an opinion. Whatever- I still like it, nearly 30 years later.

soundgardenis · #14 10-29-2010, 06:46 PM

Yes I'm stoked that there are so many flipper/black flag fans on here. More than I expected. I'll have to check out that sax player and that stooges album. I have the first stooges album and thats pretty cool. Punk kept rock n roll alive during the dreadful 80's.

I really dig Greg Ginns guitar playing. Its incredibly unique. He almosts like a combination of Pete Townshend and some obscure Jazz player and Tony Iommi. Its incredible really when you sit back and really take a listen.

I'm hoping to form a band here soon and incorparate some of the feelings that these bands give me into the music. I really dig a lot of it.

I'm not a huge punk fan either. I like a handful of punk bands but the really obscure stuff where they just spit and punch each other I find it comical and amusing but thats about it. The bands that Beavis and Butthead would front.

rulyøngo · #15 10-29-2010, 09:16 PM

Great bands! Also check out Greg Ginn's Gone... amazing band featuring Andrew Weiss on bass!

JoeVictim · #16 10-29-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundgardenis

Dude that is so cool. If you get a chance please tell your friend I think his sax playing is fantastic on Gone Fishin. I'm listening to it as I type right at this very moment. Its tasty. He knows when to hold back and when to let go. Really cool.

I don't expect too many people to reply in this thread. I've been posting ads on craigslist trying to jam with a guitar player. I stated that I want to play punk rock, but not the poppy blink 182 nonsense and I've gotten a total of 0 replies. I stated a few of my influences including flipper and black flag and I guess nooone gives a crap about those bands anymore except a select few.

Unfortunately, punk is kind of on the outs right now. I have even noticed a lack of talented metal bands in my area which is really strange.

Black Flag is one of the most popular band among punks but not a lot of people really get them. I have even seen people talking about "the bars" only to not know who Keith Morris is. It's actually quite sad. You through up a flag by wearing a stick it in t-shirt at a show and you don't even get a second look. I'll stop ranting about my lame hometown scene now.

Black Flag > potato chips.

Another band that uses great time signatures but are a lot more heavey than Black Flag is Titanarum.

Warning! this may be harder than what you are used to.
http://www.myspace.com/titanarumnet

fuzz_factor · #17 10-29-2010, 09:30 PM

Along with Ornette Coleman, be sure to check out some John Coltrane. Coltrane is not quite as far out, but definitely essential listening. You might also like Morphine, if you're into the whole rock w/saxophone thing. Morphine is definitely more mellow than Black Flag and Flipper, however.

powellmacaque · #18 10-29-2010, 09:44 PM

Black Flag is probably the most influential band that nobody outside of punk has heard of. Just remember, without Black Flag there is no grunge, 90s punk revival, slow metal, or pretty much anything "alternative" from the 90s onward. Kurt Cobain loved Ginn's playing, and I don't blame him.

fuzz_factor · #19 10-29-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powellmacaque

Black Flag is probably the most influential band that nobody outside of punk has heard of. Just remember, without Black Flag there is no grunge, 90s punk revival, slow metal, or pretty much anything "alternative" from the 90s onward. Kurt Cobain loved Ginn's playing, and I don't blame him.

Agreed. The cool thing about earlier 'punk' bands like Black Flag is that they had such a diverse sound, style and influences. Ginn was playing jazz while Rollins was screaming his head off or beating up kid in the crowd. Compare that to the whole pop punk thing that came later. Black Flag is just in a completely different universe than, say, Blink 182.

dokazaado · #20 10-30-2010, 01:40 AM

Coltrane's later period was easily as far-out as Ornette.
Meditations, Live @ The Village Vanguard Again, Om...
those records are OUT THERE.

I don't think they're jazzy really, but if you like Black Flag and Flipper, check out Pissed Jeans.
I compared 'em to both of those bands here on talkbass.com just a few days ago.
start with their more recent LP, King Of Jeans.