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07-20-2010, 12:59 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area, CA | | | a couple of fusion recording questions
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Just wanted to ask about a couple of obscure but big for their time works ...
-- Maynard Ferguson - MacArthur Park - how best to classify the bassline that dominates after 4:00? I'd call it a sweet-grovving, aggressive semi-walking bassline, definitely inspired by Jaco, but not a literal walking. This combined with...
-- What effect does Ralph Armstrong use for his extensive (and staggeringly impresisive) work in Egocentric Molecules (Ponty)? His long solo work?
Is what I seek from a composer who could work with me. Thanks.
Last edited by onewebfoot : 07-20-2010 at 01:05 AM.
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07-20-2010, 05:00 AM
|  | C'mon man! | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Hawaii | | Quote:
Originally Posted by onewebfoot  Just wanted to ask about a couple of obscure but big for their time works ...
-- Maynard Ferguson - MacArthur Park - how best to classify the bassline that dominates after 4:00? I'd call it a sweet-grovving, aggressive semi-walking bassline, definitely inspired by Jaco, but not a literal walking. This combined with...
-- What effect does Ralph Armstrong use for his extensive (and staggeringly impresisive) work in Egocentric Molecules (Ponty)? His long solo work?
Is what I seek from a composer who could work with me. Thanks. | Maynard first recorded MacArthur Park in 1970, is that the recording your referring to? If so, that predates Jaco's impact on the scene by about 5 years.
One of the effects Armstrong used with Ponty was the Maestro Brassmaster.
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07-20-2010, 05:08 AM
|  | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry Maynard first recorded MacArthur Park in 1970, is that the recording your referring to? If so, that predates Jaco's impact on the scene by about 5 years.
. | Yes it's funny how people who have never heard any Jazz apart from Jaco, accredit Jazz-y bass lines to him - when there were loads of great bass players working in the 50s and 60s who in many ways were way ahead of Jaco!
Like Paul Chambers, Ron Carter, Scott La Faro etc etc.
Of course they were all playing Double Bass.... 
I listened to the Macarthur Park version on Youtube and for a start I wouldn't call this fusion as such - but after about 4 minutes it is a straight walking bass line - although quite fast. The only thing that makes it different from most Jazz bass lines of the time, is that it is very repetitive.
You may now hear that as cool or whatever - but to my ears it is just "limited" and I don't know the player or whether he is playing a written line - but I just hear it now as unimaginative, compared to all the great walking bass lines you hear on classic Jazz recordings - say, "Autumn Leaves" (on "Somethin' Else") or "Stolen Moments", "So What" etc etc. to name a very few well-known recordings...
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
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Last edited by Bruce Lindfield : 07-20-2010 at 05:56 AM.
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07-20-2010, 08:40 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cambridge, MA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry Maynard first recorded MacArthur Park in 1970, is that the recording your referring to? If so, that predates Jaco's impact on the scene by about 5 years.
One of the effects Armstrong used with Ponty was the Maestro Brassmaster. | He also recorded it on 'Live at Jimmys' but that too precedes Jaco's entrance to the world stage by a couple of years.
bigtiny |
07-20-2010, 10:13 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area, CA | | | You guys *definitely* could have spanked me worse. Thanks for the responses. Great examples and comments. I guess what moves me about that particular work on the MacArthur Park I was listening to last night is simply the speed and flawless execution. Thanks again. |
07-20-2010, 10:31 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote:
Originally Posted by onewebfoot You guys *definitely* could have spanked me worse. Thanks for the responses. Great examples and comments. I guess what moves me about that particular work on the MacArthur Park I was listening to last night is simply the speed and flawless execution. Thanks again. | If you want fast walking lines I can think of hundreds of better examples on Jazz recordings!
I'm not a fan of this recording, but like the tune and if you want fast, then this is fast  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q16nXw1s_YI
Or some Mingus : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIf3a9FUJj4
Coltrane : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU
etc etc
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
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07-20-2010, 11:06 AM
|  | Holding the Line, Low, Loud & Proud | | Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leander, TX (outside Austin) | | | Maynard Ferguson led one of the best of the last Big Bands and had his pick of the crop of young jazz musicians of the day as well as the top studio players on some recordings. Dave Lyanne is the credited bass player on MF Horn 1 and as I recall much of that tunes bass lines were charted not improvised, to work with the rest of the arrangement. That style of bass line was very common in contemporary big band at the time, remember Jaco cut his teeth a Bachelors III nite club in the house band.
On JLP live to my ear he starts the solo out using a doubler, then adds an octaver later he uses a wah, it does not sound like a Brassmaster to me. |
07-20-2010, 02:49 PM
| | | Back when I first started listening to/buying Jazz, my uncle hipped me to a few recordings like Pat Martino's Consciousness album (Martino lived behind my uncle).
Here's the tune that killed me...very fast walking bass on an upright. It really put a perspective on things. 
"Impressions" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GcWq...next=1&index=7
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07-21-2010, 01:51 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bassbrad Maynard Ferguson led one of the best of the last Big Bands and had his pick of the crop of young jazz musicians of the day as well as the top studio players on some recordings. Dave Lyanne is the credited bass player on MF Horn 1 and as I recall much of that tunes bass lines were charted not improvised, to work with the rest of the arrangement. That style of bass line was very common in contemporary big band at the time, remember Jaco cut his teeth a Bachelors III nite club in the house band.
. | As I was saying it's not really "Fusion" as such - there were a lot of big bands playing this kind of stuff in the 60s and it was the staple of 60s TV show themes - we even had big bands like this in England!!
I suspected the line would be written - personally I hate those charts that don't "trust" the bass player to improvise a decent walking line... 
Fusion really started with Miles' electric bands and followed those musicians...?
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