Originally Posted by bassbully
Whatever. The point is he asked for his music to be criticized and it was and IMO it was fair. Plenty of people have come on here and asked views on their music and if its good or decent they are told so ..if not..well. I can handle someone who is honest and we were so what is the big deal. Put on your big boy pants if you want to be criticized and take whats coming if you dare send out recordings like those.
BTW this was not really getting off track until your started defending the OP and in turn started the FLAMEWARR.
You won't be surprised if I am not entirely in agreement with you.. In part I am, because yes there wasn't any particular stridency to the criticism until I began to point out that people weren't actually giving the help that was asked for.
Now, full stop.
If this argument, which by now has become a meta-argument, is in any of your interests, then read on! But if not, the pains I am going to go to in making my point as clear as possible would bore or annoy you and I suggest going no further.
Remember that the OP asked for this specifically:
Originally Posted by Tommygunn
Even if they are just rough demos, I'd love some tough criticism. All instruments, construction, effects, etc. They're also best when head with headphones.
The answers he received, though fair and accurate in themselves, did not actually address what he'd asked for. They amounted to "your demos are too rough." Yet I could clearly hear the ideas expressed within the demos and only using a little imagination, could see some value in them, so I disagreed with that, and put forth my own answer to the question.
I did use the term, "Crickets on a biscuit, people!" and in that I am sure I inflamed some passions. I didn't think giving a young artist the message that he's "wasting his time" was good or proper for a forum like this one and reacted to that.
After my initial post more people responded with the same advice that had already been given, and which did not actually respond to what the OP asked for. But note the difference in tone of some of the advice that comes now. (Names removed to avoid being overly personal.)
Originally Posted by ;13755002
I was told by a top professional, "If your demo requires that the listener use their imagination, do not play it to anyone. Record a better demo."
I refuse to imagine in-tune instruments.
Originally Posted by ;13755100
But sloppy out of tune playing not only shows unprofessionalism, it's an insult to the listener. Make a few improvements and the overall effect goes from distain to favorable. It isn't that hard. If you can't make that effort you shouldn't be making music. (Unless it's just for a personal hobby -- in which case keep it to yourself).
Note that the second poster accidentally misspelled a word, which was an irony that I couldn't resist.
This is actually very bad
advice to give to people in the creative process. Since we are here to help other bassists and artists, it shouldn't be allowed to stand as if it's good advice.
I suppose I will never understand why both of these writers felt abused by the "demos" that they heard -- nor having felt abused, why they thought they should say things like "do not play it to anyone" or "if you can't make that effort, then you shouldn't be playing music" if what they really wanted to do was help the OP. By this point, it has already been made clear to the OP that the tuning issue is a problem. And I must say that, even if the prior posters didn't respond to what the OP asked for, they did give their criticisms in a way that was fair and wasn't hurtful.
Others afterward took an approach that had the effect of "piling on," that was neither constructive for the OP nor beneficial to the forum as a whole.
The OP has not returned to this thread and likely won't. It was apparent by his last post that he didn't like the treatment he was receiving. But he had accepted the tuning issue already with grace:
Originally Posted by Tommygunn
I appreciate the criticism but I think the first reply nailed it with the tuner idea. I get it and I actually addressed it in the first post. There were 4 demos and y'all seem to just be listening to the very first one.
If I can't get any other help other than another redundant post about being in tune, I'd like the thread to be closed.
So what were
the rest of the folk doing?
Either they didn't read the thread at all, or they were doing something other
than providing constructive criticism.
I've been instructed that to comment on a rather obvious issue raised by the quote just above will result in bad things
, so I will refrain. I will just say that it's often very obvious when people are posting without reading. I think if you are doing that, it's also obvious that you really aren't interested in being helpful.
Now, my position ought to be entirely clear and I recognize that any further posts from me on this point will likely only draw out the kind of non-constructive posting I'm talking about anyway so this will have to be the end of it for me.
It's my habit to reply to anyone who seems to be talking to me (ie, you quoted me, or quoted something I said even if you didn't use the quote feature, etc.) I don't do this only in the context of an argument like this one, but I try to do it every time. I do it because I think people deserve to be engaged with understanding -- even if it isn't pleasant at the time, I know that everyone gets something
out of it. But in this case, I encourage you to respond in any way you like, but I won't be able to join you any further.