Dirty overdriven bass tone normal on recordings? Isolated tracks, etc.

Hizzoner · #1 10-25-2011, 09:03 AM

I have noticed some of my favorite bass lines sound incredibly overdriven when listened to in isolation. It is not always so notable in the mix of the song...but really is amazing when hearing isolated bass tracks....Is this common as a recording technique? I guess I always assumed that bass tracks were cleaner than they appear to be due to their sound in the mix. What are some examples of dirty OD bass tracks that are deceptively dirty?

I noticed Flea had an overdriven sound on Give it Away, Geddy of course on most of his stuff, Steve Harris on The Trooper, and even Robert DeLeo on Interstate:

Stone Temple Pilots - Interstate Love Song (Bass) - YouTube

Epidrake · #2 10-25-2011, 09:06 AM

I noticed the same thing. It's really quite obvious in isolated tracks. It has to be due to the blending with the other instruments. Some of the Grand Funk stuff is pretty growly.

Hizzoner · #3 10-25-2011, 09:08 AM

sorry.... I asked this question before a long time ago and forgot..

Maybe I am looking for more examples of clean tone vs dirty tone, understanding Jamerson, McCartney, Entwistle, etc had shades of dirt going on..

Any rock players pretty clean? Isolated track examples?

OldDog52 · #4 10-25-2011, 11:21 AM

Is it possible that some of the "dirtiness" we hear is at least partially due to repeated lossy digital compression? By the time an isolated bass track makes it to YouTube, it might be several lossy digital generations removed from a lossless master.

AndyLES · #5 10-25-2011, 11:25 AM

No, the OP surmised correctly - this is actually a very common recording/mixing technique, especially in the rock genres. I have isolated tracks of the Police's "message in a Bottle" and "Roxanne" where the bass is grindy as all hell. But in the context of the mix, it totally works, and you dont' perceive the distortion as an "effect," per se.

Distortion give the bass extra "weight" without necessarily making it louder. It also compresses the signal naturally and adds extra midrange and high end harmonics.

FaithNoMan · #6 10-25-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyLES

No, the OP surmised correctly - this is actually a very common recording/mixing technique, especially in the rock genres. I have isolated tracks of the Police's "message in a Bottle" and "Roxanne" where the bass is grindy as all hell. But in the context of the mix, it totally works, and you dont' perceive the distortion as an "effect," per se.

Distortion give the bass extra "weight" without necessarily making it louder. It also compresses the signal naturally and adds extra midrange and high end harmonics.

This.

Every time I go to record bass, I usually make it "clean with a hint of grind" but by the time I'm finished, I have the bass a lot more distorted than I originally planned because it has so much more presence and life in the mix.

HolmeBass · #7 10-25-2011, 12:54 PM

I find the corollary to this: I'll use a fair amount of overdrive on a tune, and when listening to the playback (recording of our band live) of either soundboard or room mic, it always sounds much less distorted/over-driven than the soloed bass tone sounds.

erock138 · #8 10-25-2011, 12:57 PM

The producer i work with shared this trick, even in a country tune, use a dirty bass tone. It cuts through surprisingly clean and fits so well, but it's gritty when recorded.

JP Morin · #9 10-25-2011, 01:20 PM

I did this too everytime I went to studio...

More : most of times we blended a dirty track with distortion pedal and a clean track to have the best of both world : the clean transparency and still tight sub/lows (these are cut sometimes by dist. pedals) with the grind over that enhance the high and mids and blend trough the mix...

One Drop · #10 10-26-2011, 04:40 AM

Dirt is my friend.

TheInsane · #11 10-26-2011, 10:57 AM

For me it was a relevation of sorts when I found this out. I think I had some ida about it but it was when I saw the bonus DVD for The Haunteds album "the dead eye" when I really understood it.

It seems like most metal bands use this technique and a fai share or rock and pop bands as well. It helped me tremendously when I recorded with my band. Grittyness and distorion makes the bass be heard in music where other intruments sometimes compete on the same sound levels.

GladToBeBack · #12 10-26-2011, 11:12 AM

While I have not listened to isolated tracks to any great extent, I can offer my own personal experience with recording.

I have noticed that I dirt up my signal a bit more than usual when laying it down. While clean sounds great on its own, it just doesn't stand up to the rest of the track very well. A little OD and some adjustments to EQ settings and it sounds a lot better. Again, this is my experience and I play/write/record modern rock.

Playing the same thing live I go back to my usual preferences.

I'm not a professional engineer by any means, but my speculation is that the recorded signal needs to be adjusted to keep it from becoming nothing more than a thickening agent. Since the only true lossless listening experience is to hear the music live, no recording can fully obtain the subtle nuances and ambient presence of the live amp. Maybe adding more bite to the signal is a way to overcome that, or at least fake it well.

staindbass · #13 10-26-2011, 11:31 AM

you need alot more dirt in a recording versus solo bass to hear it because of the frequency masking of the other instruments.

rockstarbassist · #14 10-26-2011, 01:31 PM

Yep, big time. I'm finding out just how well it works with our record. Even on our "clean" stuff, it still either has 1. heavy compression to make it sound pretty o/driven or 2. we actually put the effect on it. Then we really push it when I want actual OD in the mix.

We listen to a lot of the mogg or solo'd stuff through his recording rig and yeah, it's pretty cool to check out.

Hizzoner · #15 10-27-2011, 04:33 AM

Thanks for all the replies..special thanks to Mr. April for making an appearance here...great stuff..much appreciated.

Hizzoner · #16 10-27-2011, 05:21 AM

Any insights into how staind records their bass tracks? Isolated tracks anywhere? Seems pretty clean but hard to tell unless in isolation. Thanks.
Mark

leegreenman · #17 10-27-2011, 05:33 AM

I've always found that a deceptively dirty sound just sounds nice in many mixes.

Ric5 · #18 10-27-2011, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Drop

Dirt is my friend.

+1

Oreomeister365 · #19 10-27-2011, 06:15 AM

indeed, always surprises me how dirty a lot of bass tracks are

Tool - Vicarious (Bass Instrumental) - YouTube

even though JCs tone has always been considered gritty, that actual track is still a lot dirtier than it seems in the band,

rockstarbassist · #20 10-27-2011, 09:44 AM

Here's another example that you can hear at the intro from Brian Marshall (Alter Bridge) who has a kind of dark tone anyway, but there's a LOT of OD on that bass track, way more than you can hear in the mix.
I have lots of Mp3's of them but this is all I could find on YT as a good example.

Alter Bridge - Come To Life - Backing Track (Vocals, Bass and Drums) - YouTube

Also I was happy to find out he records most everything with his black 'n maple SR5!