Discipline.... again.

Benjamin Strange · #1 06-13-2007, 04:31 PM

I've been fooling with this King Crimson song on and off for several years now. I work on it a bit, get frustrated and quit, and come back to it months later, work some more, and quit again. I started working on this during downtime between recording sessions for my acoustic album. Here's a current form:

Discipline (mp3)

I wasn't planning on putting this up as a download, as the mix is pretty terrible - but I tried putting it on Myspace and their player totally ruined a mix that I've been working on for two days. It's amazing how bad it sounds through their player vs. the mp3 form. For sake of comparison, here's my Myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/benjaminstrange

And that's about it. Your comments / criticisms are welcome.

StanFan · #2 06-13-2007, 06:20 PM

King Crimson are one of my favorite bands, and personally I like your version of Discipline. I only heard the myspace version though, so I can't comment on the mix.

KeithPas · #3 06-13-2007, 06:24 PM

That is an ambitious tune to try to cop and I think you did a great job with it. Your version is a very cool. I'm glad someone besides me is still interested in this kind of material.

Thangfish · #4 06-13-2007, 07:04 PM

You'll get no criticism from me. I didn't recognize it at the very beginning, but then I caught on to what was going on. Cool take on it.

That is one of my favorite songs of all time. Good luck finding a pair of guitar players that can pull it off. Adrian Belew stated that it was the hardest song he's ever had to learn.

Thanks for sharing

mulambo · #5 06-13-2007, 08:00 PM

Brother, altough some ppl dont like, i think those Adrian Belew years is the best King Crinson year.
ASAP (too late now, my baby is sleeping), i will check it for sure. expect for some opinio soon...

Matt Till · #6 06-13-2007, 08:17 PM

I don't know what you did different from the original mix you did (aparently it's no longer on my computer), but I like it better than your first take at it. You really make it your own song instead of just covering it, which is the best way of doing things.

Jay Terrien · #7 06-13-2007, 08:45 PM

Till,

You need to send some bass tracks to Benjamin Strange. This is the proper way to ressurect "SWISS QUEER"!! Awesome tune......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

I don't know what you did different from the original mix you did (aparently it's no longer on my computer), but I like it better than your first take at it. You really make it your own song instead of just covering it, which is the best way of doing things.

GSRLessard14 · #8 06-13-2007, 08:56 PM

Flippin' love this album.

Matt Till · #9 06-13-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Terrien

Till,

You need to send some bass tracks to Benjamin Strange. This is the proper way to ressurect "SWISS QUEER"!! Awesome tune......

Swiss Queer will always be in our hearts and spagetti and hearts.

Benjamin Strange · #10 06-13-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Terrien

Till,

You need to send some bass tracks to Benjamin Strange. This is the proper way to ressurect "SWISS QUEER"!! Awesome tune......

Matt doesn't have to send me bass tracks - I steal them. This is true.

mulambo · #11 06-14-2007, 06:59 AM

Man, this is sick! Heavy and Loud. Sound like a industrial type of music. What did u used for the main sequenced hook (that recriates the guitar lines). An instrument with heavy fx, or a synth? U programmed the drums?? Excellent Work! Overall, the mix is quite muddy, too much sounds of the same range of frequencies, middle frequencies....Im not with wavelab here, but at first it seems that are some fight around 1000/3000 hz. Maybe it was your intention that sonority...if yes, thats ok. I will come again to listen it more times, and check you my space page. Now (and ever) im in a hurry!
Cheers!

Alan Vorse · #12 06-14-2007, 07:19 AM

Ouch! I liked it though!

Benjamin Strange · #13 06-14-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulambo

Man, this is sick! Heavy and Loud. Sound like a industrial type of music. What did u used for the main sequenced hook (that recriates the guitar lines). An instrument with heavy fx, or a synth? U programmed the drums?? Excellent Work! Overall, the mix is quite muddy, too much sounds of the same range of frequencies, middle frequencies....Im not with wavelab here, but at first it seems that are some fight around 1000/3000 hz. Maybe it was your intention that sonority...if yes, thats ok. I will come again to listen it more times, and check you my space page. Now (and ever) im in a hurry!
Cheers!

Well, it sounds like you know a bit more about mixing than I do - I'm just throwing up faders and EQs and hoping for the best. I tried to clear up the mix as best as possible, but it was pretty tough with 38 tracks going on.

The main line is a synth patch I made. I programmed the whole thing, including drums.

jeff schmidt · #14 06-14-2007, 01:18 PM

Hey Benjamin - I really dig your arrangement and the textures you bring to this piece - but the mix/production is hiding a lot of the cool stuff you have going on in there.

38 tracks is a problem if it obscures the musical intent.

I think all your ideas in this piece can work - but the production has to support them. I'd actually love to have an hour with the multi-track of this.

Good stuff though.

Benjamin Strange · #15 06-14-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff schmidt

Hey Benjamin - I really dig your arrangement and the textures you bring to this piece - but the mix/production is hiding a lot of the cool stuff you have going on in there.

38 tracks is a problem if it obscures the musical intent.

I think all your ideas in this piece can work - but the production has to support them. I'd actually love to have an hour with the multi-track of this.

Good stuff though.

I'll send you the files if you'd like. Heck, maybe I could just post the whole thing and see if any TBers can do better with the mix. I wish I knew what I was doing with mixing - each time I fool with this it gets better, but I am still far from being a mix master.

I'm currently recording some acoustic material, but based on my experiences with this song and others, I'm going to farm out the mixing to a professional.

DigMe · #16 06-14-2007, 04:06 PM

Very impressive.
bc

mulambo · #17 06-15-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Well, it sounds like you know a bit more about mixing than I do -
.

Not necessary, Benjamin. Your version is agressive, maybe too much for whom is familiar to the original. As i said, it seems its your intention to go further on the experimentalism of the composition, so thats ok. Anyway, its a very difficult work u are doing, so there is room for improvement. I gone to your page and really dig what i saw and listened. Your work with a 80s rock accent is really, really cool to me, and overall your recordings are in a high level.
One thing i did not saw is how u do the monitoring. Wich monitors do u use? are u using nearfields? they are essential in a studio for mixing.

Benjamin Strange · #18 06-15-2007, 08:13 PM

I've got a pair of cheap M-Audio Sp5bs. I guess they sound alright, but aren't at a super high quality.

I'm generally aware of my mixing problems - I seem to always end up with a very muddy low end, and I don't have alot of separation between the instruments. Unfortunately, I don't really know how to fix these kind of things, especially as most of my sounds tend to lean towards the overly thick side of things.

Funny, I've actually had a request to post the original sound files online for another TBer to work on. I may just make them publically available, just to see what people will do with them.

MysticMichael · #19 06-15-2007, 08:21 PM

I repeat myself when under stress...
I repeat myself when under stress...
I repeat myself when under stress...
I repeat myself when under stress...
I repeat...

Jay Terrien · #20 06-19-2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff schmidt

I think all your ideas in this piece can work - but the production has to support them. I'd actually love to JESUS FIST the multi-track of this.

Good stuff though.