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08-06-2002, 03:37 PM
| | Supporting Member | | Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The land of chicken fried funk | |
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I know this is an old thread, but I think it bears even more merit in the wake on Entwistle's passing.
NO bassist has ever kicked my ass so hard or made me think about the role of electric bass more differently that Entwistle on "Live at Leeds." I couldn't give a care if Townsend's SG appeared or not. I'm not the first to recognize by any means that Entwistle was the one who carried the songs, instrumentally. Townsend, to me, was an uncommonly great songwriter but, as a guitarist, just a chord basher with mediocre lead guitar skills. To his credit, Townsend even admitted he was practically forgettable.
The tragedy, to me, is that we will never hear of "Sir John Entwistle." He changed my world on bass. Since I first heard him in 1970, I have always used stainless steel roundwounds. I was no longer a "background" musician.
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Last edited by rickbass : 08-06-2002 at 03:40 PM.
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08-07-2002, 07:55 AM
| | Pat's the best! | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Northern Virginia, USA | | Quote: |
I thought I read somewhere that Entwhistle used to use Fender P-Basses customized with Gibson Thunderbird necks. Anyone know if this is true?
| You've got it backwards. He used Gibson Thunderbird basses with Fender P necks bolted on for a few years. What an incredibly bizzare combination. |
08-07-2002, 11:58 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London, UK | | Quote: Originally posted by Philbiker
You've got it backwards. He used Gibson Thunderbird basses with Fender P necks bolted on for a few years. What an incredibly bizzare combination. | I'm a bit perplexed about how he did that- judging from pics of the "Fenderbird" bass the body wasn't from a neck-through reverse-body T-Bird (the original neck on which would have had to be sawn off  ),
but it couldn't have come from a set-neck T'Bird as those were non-reverse bodies 
a custom T-bird body, perhaps? 
Last edited by The Mock Turtle Regulator : 08-07-2002 at 12:09 PM.
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08-07-2002, 12:33 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Valencia, CA 91354 | | My guess is that they were reverse-body T-birds with the necks sawn off. Given how much the headstocks break on those things, it was probably a good idea 
BTW, I thought Entwistle used an early SVT on Live at Leeds.
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08-07-2002, 01:35 PM
| | Pat's the best! | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Northern Virginia, USA | | Quote:
I'm a bit perplexed about how he did that- judging from pics of the "Fenderbird" bass the body wasn't from a neck-through reverse-body T-Bird (the original neck on which would have had to be sawn off ),
but it couldn't have come from a set-neck T'Bird as those were non-reverse bodies
| Even if it was a set neck instrument the neck would have had to be sawn off to accomodate the Fender shaped neck heel. My guess is that as Peter implied it may have been a broke headstock T-Bird as that was pretty common. This bass was on the wall at my local "Hard Rock Cafe" the last time I was there.
There's no way that either Fender or Gibson endorsed this bass, as they were very bitter rivals at the time. The whole idea of a neck through/set neck Gibson with a Fender neck is just crazy. I'm surprised there isn't a replica made by anyone. Well, Epiphone....  |
08-07-2002, 02:13 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London, UK | | | the through-neck T'bird with broken headstock theory sounds plausible for the "Fenderbirds", but I was looking at pics of them in the Bassist interview with JE-
the body looks completely flat, with a different pickguard running accross the bass- original neck-through T'birds had a centre raised section (as JE's sunburst one in the Ultimate Guitar Book), with a pickguard only covering the lower bout.
the body could have been sanded flat, and the custom pickguard added- seems like a lot of work would have been involved though.
Last edited by The Mock Turtle Regulator : 08-07-2002 at 02:18 PM.
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08-07-2002, 09:56 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Worcester, MA | | | I just bought Live at Leeds about 4 hours ago. I've listened to it through twice already. Great great album. Already one of my favourites.
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08-08-2002, 03:54 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Chicago, IL | | I just picked up "The Who by Numbers" on CD, not having owned it since before vinyl went out the window. Anyway, this is an updated version with 3 live performances on it: Squeeze Box, Behind Blue Eyes, and Dreaming From the Waist.
IMO, this CD showcases Entwistle's talent about as much as Live at Leeds or Quadrophenia. The songs aren't as memorable, but the bass parts SMOKE!!!
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08-09-2002, 07:14 AM
| | Pat's the best! | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Northern Virginia, USA | | | I absolutely love "By Numbers". The bass is incredible, and "Success Story" is probably my favorite Entwistle penned Who song. |
08-09-2002, 11:29 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Devizes, Wiltshire, UK | | | Watched a Lot in the UK
I played in a warm-up band when the Who were firsdt called the Detours then the High Numbers and finally the Who. John Entwistle moved from a 335 stle Epiphone (when they were made to the same quality as Gibsons) which had that huge rumbling bass soiund, with no definition to the Rickenbacker that gave them the clear clank you hear on the early records. Having said that the band did use borrowed Precisions in the sudio and double up the 12 string Rickenbacker Towsend played with the piano. So don't really believe what you see on record albums. John's sound was in the ealy days just a normal stock Rickenbacker with Marshall stackes 2 x 4 x 12 Celestions (the 25 watt ones) And at the start it was just driven by a single 50 watt Marshall valve amp - no effects in 1964. He used Rotosound strings as they seemed to have the most clang to them - played with the fingers - he was the first player I had ever seen do that - in his own style of thumb and three fingers which was how he hit so many notes per bar. Want more e mail me but that;'s me pretty wel played out on what I can remember from 38 years ago. By the way we all went round to John's mum's house (I worked for her in the tax office at the time) and listen to their new demo called "I think It's Spring" which was the chorus. This then became "I can't Explain" on the first recording. Don't think the spring idea worked as well. What do you think?
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08-09-2002, 11:34 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Devizes, Wiltshire, UK | | | And
Yes the earlier post is correct about the guitar amp used - I was there when John tried this. It gave a load more top to the Rickenbacker. I suspect he had one of each when he started to double up the amps and chain the Marshal 50 amps. (No 100 watts's at this stage)
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08-09-2002, 06:08 PM
|  | Fingers, pick, and a little bit of slap | | Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Terrapin country (Crofton, MD) | | | Since Ox died, 2 CDs have not left my car: Live at Leeds, and the soundtrack album to Kids are Alright, which was recently remastered and rereleased.
Many great words have been said about L@L, deservedly so, but while Kids isn't quite on that level, it is also a fine album. Kids contains many great live tracks from the Ox/Moon era. Two of my favorites are "Baba O'Reilly" and "Won't Get Fooled" (both in the film; just check out Ox' massive Alembic tones), but my favorite of all is not in the film, and that is the Entwistle-penned "My Wife". This is another track which can be panned left to hear John in all his glory, laying down some stunning muted-plectrum work. What is even more amazing is that he sings the lead. |
10-19-2006, 07:55 AM
| | | | Agree with you view on Who By Numbers - a really underrated album and probably the one that showcased Enwistle's studio work the best. Especially love the descending runs on Slipkid! |
10-19-2006, 10:24 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edinboro, PA | | | Man, I'm going to have to listen to Live at Leeds when I get home now.
John's always been more a tonal influence than a playing influence, until I heard live at Leeds, then I realized his playing influenced the bassists that influenced me... so it all comes back to The Ox.
As you can tell (maybe) by my avatar, I've been big on his solo discs lately. They are kinda like the Who's heavier side... cool heavy psych... SMASH YOUR HEAD AGAINST THE WALL! Who can argue an album title like that?
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10-19-2006, 02:19 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: san diego, CA | | | now go our and buy the dvd 'the who live at the aisle of white." it was filmed just a short time after live at leeds. live it leeds is better overall but isle of white was very good too. unfortunately they don't spend a whole lot of time focusing on the ox but it is quite a spectacle overall. watching moon alone is worth it. |
10-19-2006, 06:10 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, England | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by dancehallclasher .
entwhistle basically has two tones on the album - a mellow one, and a hard rocking one. does anybody know how he got the latter? sounds to me like maybe a pick and some sort of overdrive pedal. in the photos in the insert it shows him playing a P-bass through a Hiwatt stack, does anyone know if that is indeed the setup he used on that album?
| The two tone differences are basically his P-bass with the tone knob at either extreme. And subtler sound changes are achieved with his playing style, the pick giving a sharper attack.
I believe John was using two Hiwatt stacks at the time, one to emphasize the bottom, the other for top. He would have gone direct into them.
The bass was a Frankenstein job but the secret to the incredible tone is the pickup - salvaged from an earlier 'slab' Precision, it had a growlier, raunchier tone than the standard. I've been campaigning for Fender to reissue this pickup, it is probably the best bass tone ever. 
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10-20-2006, 06:08 AM
| | Pat's the best! | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Northern Virginia, USA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Matt Till As you can tell (maybe) by my avatar, I've been big on his solo discs lately. They are kinda like the Who's heavier side... cool heavy psych... | With LOTS OF HORNS!!
I love Peter Framton's playing on "Whistle Rhymes". |
11-08-2006, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by these_go211 now go our and buy the dvd 'the who live at the aisle of white." it was filmed just a short time after live at leeds. live it leeds is better overall but isle of white was very good too. unfortunately they don't spend a whole lot of time focusing on the ox but it is quite a spectacle overall. watching moon alone is worth it. | by all means! I got that one last Christmas (by request of course) More energy than any band should be allowed to have  My 11-yr-old bass-playing son is becoming a big Entwhistle fan (good genes at work ) -GFI | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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