Good albums for learning to play "behind the beat"

chrisintosh · #1 08-10-2009, 09:09 PM

Hello, my band has recently begun preproduction for our new album and I think that I may need some advice. Haha. Our producer talked to myself and the drummer after a short room recording session, and as we played back the songs listening for detail, one thing that our producer kept repeating was that we had to learn how to start playing "behind the beat."

Both the drummer and myself have musical backgrounds in punk rock and intense heavy metal, and because of this we are inclined to play almost sitting forward and constantly on top of the beat, but where this album is a pop/rock/acoustic project I need to learn to quit head banging through riffs and just play in the pocket.

If anyone has any studio, playing or even anecdotal advice for me at this point then I would be extremely appreciative. I'm mostly interested good album examples of this kind of playing but any advice would be awesome. Our producer suggested Parliament, but I was hoping to get some good hip-hop albums as well and not just funk.

rational baze · #2 08-10-2009, 09:20 PM

Voodoo by D'Angelo is a good one with Pino

chrisintosh · #3 08-10-2009, 09:43 PM

Thanks I will look into it.

BassXgirl · #4 08-10-2009, 09:52 PM

I'd reccommend pretty much anything Dr Dre is involved in. Especially the old 90s The Chronic an Dre 2000. He is a master of behind the beat. Also you can't go wrong with 70s funk type stuff. George Porter and The Meters (like Best of the Meters) are prime examples of laying back and letting the groove take over.

earthlypunk · #5 08-10-2009, 10:01 PM

I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but alot of swing records feature basslines that are behind the beat. Check out "BAM BAM BAM" by the ray brown trio. It's a great album just for the bass playing, whether you like jazz or not.

neal davis · #6 08-10-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earthlypunk

I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but alot of swing records feature basslines that are behind the beat. Check out "BAM BAM BAM" by the ray brown trio. It's a great album just for the bass playing, whether you like jazz or not.

Really?, Ray is usually on top of the beat when he plays, he pushed so hard, I'll have to check this out. I usually have never thought of Ray Brown as behind the beat or in general that many swing records. but for behind the beat you should definitely check out the D'angello album

Asomodai · #7 08-11-2009, 03:48 AM

Sting/The Police, He is a master at playing behind the beat.

Bruce Lindfield · #8 08-11-2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neal davis

Really?, Ray is usually on top of the beat when he plays, he pushed so hard, I'll have to check this out. I usually have never thought of Ray Brown as behind the beat or in general that many swing records. but for behind the beat you should definitely check out the D'angello album

I agree with you - many Jazz horn players will lag behind the beat - but bass players, almost never - they are driving the music forward and giving it momentum!

Actually - I tend to think that for a bass player, it is not desirable to be behind the beat. Right in the middle - is great, in the pocket as they say. But for a bass line to have forward momentum and sound "tight", I wouldn't want to be behind the beat.

Vocalist and horn players can be behind the beat - but bass players need to be in the middle, or everything can really drag...

Dr. Cheese · #9 08-11-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I agree with you - many Jazz horn players will lag behind the beat - but bass players, almost never - they are driving the music forward and giving it momentum!

Actually - I tend to think that for a bass player, it is not desirable to be behind the beat. Right in the middle - is great, in the pocket as they say. But for a bass line to have forward momentum and sound "tight", I wouldn't want to be behind the beat.

Vocalist and horn players can be behind the beat - but bass players need to be in the middle, or everything can really drag...

That is the whole point of music like D'Angelo. It is laid back, but not dragging, because the pulse of the music is designed that way.

Raphael Saadiq and Toni Tony Tone would be another person or group to check for that fell also.

Bruce Lindfield · #10 08-11-2009, 05:23 AM

Yes - but I am saying that the OP probably doesn't want to be aiming to play behind the beat, but rather in the centre, in the pocket!

nysbob · #11 08-11-2009, 06:50 AM

NRBQ - Joey & Tom lay it back but have a great groove.

Kink Rimson · #12 08-11-2009, 06:50 AM

I still have no clue what any of this means.

nysbob · #13 08-11-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kink Rimson

I still have no clue what any of this means.

I'm not sure either, but I think he's referring to more of a swingy feel as opposed to metronomic.

But it really should be the producer's job to provide examples of what he's talking about....

Bruce Lindfield · #14 08-11-2009, 07:05 AM

But bass players who swing, are almost invariably playing ahead of the beat in Jazz!!

Rock-Bassman · #15 08-11-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassXgirl

George Porter and The Meters (like Best of the Meters) are prime examples of laying back and letting the groove take over.

Ya pretty much everything meters is good for you purpose...

burk48237 · #16 08-11-2009, 07:22 AM

Here's a few great examples of what I think of when I think of "playing behind the beat" or a big pocket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1MBUEBHzmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FBnQ...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzmf7...eature=related

bass12 · #17 08-11-2009, 09:42 AM

Just 'cause you're playing behind the beat doesn't mean you're not in the pocket. There are different kinds of pockets. Me'shell Ndegéocello is another one to check out. Try her album "Comfort Woman". In fact, pay attention to her keyboard lines - she'll often play these super laid-back. Also, check out "Ug" by Mr. Scruff (from the album Trouser Jazz). The bass line in that has a behind-the-beat feel to it (just go to iTunes and listen to the excerpt - you'll hear what you need to hear). It can be difficult to play "behind the beat" if you're used to playing on top of, or ahead of, the beat - so don't be too hard on yourself if it takes some doing to get to where the producer is happy. Good luck. Oh, and + 1 on Voodoo. "Didn't Cha Know" by Erykah Badu is another one to have a listen to.

Michael Henson · #18 08-12-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rational baze

Voodoo by D'Angelo is a good one with Pino

Pino is the man! Pino = Versatile...Maybe some day I'll be half as complete a player as he is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygCeB...03B530&index=0

Dom Phenom · #19 08-12-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rational baze

Voodoo by D'Angelo is a good one with Pino

end of thread.

Calebmundy · #20 08-12-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

But bass players who swing, are almost invariably playing ahead of the beat in Jazz!!

No doubt you're right, but dude is playing pop/rock, and depending on the feel of the tune, it is really important for the bass and drums to sit back behind the beat-especially for the mid tempo stuff.

I would definitely reccomend playing along with Track 13 of Dre's "2001". I could not possibly type that track name here on this forum, and it IS one of the MOST explicit sets of lyrics ever, so be cool with that, but Mike Elizondo (I assume) and co. laid it way way back on that.

For a pop/rock laid back setting, I would suggest "Round Here" by the Counting Crows, or any of the John Mayer stuff-the later the better.