The Great Carol Kaye

**Blackbird** · #1 11-23-2006, 02:08 PM

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that whenever Carol Kaye is mentioned on TB, it's in the context of her taking credit for basslines allegedly played by other legendary musicians. In the process, she's reduced to an usurper of other people's work and all her credibility and achievements are forgotten.

Regardless of which side people stand on the issue, I think she deserves to be acknowledged as the pioneer that she is, I mean, she's on Pet Sounds, for crying out loud. And, even if (and that's a big "if" ) she's not as worthy of praise as certain deceased pioneers, she's at least as praiseworthy as Joe Osborn, Bob Glaub and Duck Dunn, but did she ever get a signature model? No. Is this fair? Hell, no.

So here it is, the thread where we praise Carol Kaye for the work she did. Besides Pet Sounds, She also played on Richie Valens' La Bamba and of course, thousands of Phil Spector sessions.

Here's a recent project of hers: A live trio recording with a guitarist and a flute/sax player. Just a cozy trio blowing through standards and a few originals. Carol even picks up the guitar on one track.

So, favorite Kaye basslines/recordings, anyone?

JimK · #2 11-23-2006, 04:08 PM

"Hikky-Burr" from Quincy Jones' Smackwater Jack album.

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #3 11-24-2006, 07:45 AM

I think the main reason that would keep her from getting a signature bass is that few men would purchase a female's signature bass, and men make up the vast majority of pricier bass purchases. Sad but true.

Also, I thought she used standard, non-customized P basses? Not much reason for a signature model if it's same as an off the shelf model

Jay Terrien · #4 11-24-2006, 09:30 AM

Bryan,

I'll go halves with you on the new Sheryl Crow signature model.

JT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

I think the main reason that would keep her from getting a signature bass is that few men would purchase a female's signature bass, and men make up the vast majority of pricier bass purchases. Sad but true.

Also, I thought she used standard, non-customized P basses? Not much reason for a signature model if it's same as an off the shelf model

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #5 11-24-2006, 10:04 AM

Does it come with a Lance Armstrong sticker on it?

steveb98 · #6 11-24-2006, 10:31 AM

I think basses player recognize Carol Kaye for the work she actually did. I've been a fan of her playing since 60's and have many of her teaching materials. Some people besides the arguements over songs credit, many don't like how critical of slap bass she is. She speaks her mind and that doesn't sit well with some. She back playing guitar again and some cool YouTubes floating around of her at Berklee and NAMM jamming.

As for a signature bass I alway wondered why Fender never did a Jamerson, Kaye, or Dunn bass, but back in their day Fender didn't do signature models. Today Fender signature models are just another Market ploy to usually make suttle changes and add a signature to sell basically the same thing. I think that is obvious in most of the signature models are current big names and those models come and go. There are only a couple signature models are legends like Clapton, Beck, SRV models.

BassLand · #7 11-24-2006, 11:27 AM

"As for a signature bass I alway wondered why Fender never did a Jamerson, Kaye, or Dunn bass,"

Fender made both a Jamerson and Duck Dunn model signature bass

BrandonBass · #8 11-24-2006, 12:00 PM

im sure there are tons of people who play bass in their house everyday who are better than Mark Hoppus, but no one would buy their sig bass cause the general public dont care about em. If they wont sell, then they wont mass-produce em....common sense really

steveb98 · #9 11-24-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassLand

"As for a signature bass I alway wondered why Fender never did a Jamerson, Kaye, or Dunn bass,"

Fender made both a Jamerson and Duck Dunn model signature bass

When. I don't ever remember them. They did do advertisements with legends like them, but don't remember signature basses.

**Blackbird** · #10 11-24-2006, 04:47 PM

Thanks for the replies, but this thread's really about Carol Kaye's career. The signature bass issue was intended to illustrate a point, not be the central issue.

Big nebula · #11 11-24-2006, 05:00 PM

I joined her website and posted on her forum and asked her straight-forward questions regarding bass progressions in jazz and the whole thread got out of control,totally at Carol's hands and her mis-understanding and lack of ability to read beyond the typed word...I don't have much time for her as a person due to the way she banned me from her site and at the same time had a laugh at me in doing so.She is a very arrogant and self-centered female.
No acolades from this quarter.

Skel · #12 11-24-2006, 05:04 PM

I got to know Carol through her forum and e-mail. According to her, she hates Fender Precisions, which was known as the "Fender Bass" she was handed back in the 60's when whomever was supposed to play didn't show up. She told me she uses and likes Ibanez basses, so I guess that would have to be the signature bass brand.

I liked her bass line on Sonny & Cher's recording of "The Beat Goes On". Simple but very memorable and effective. She's a great lady and I really have no idea of all the records she's playing bass on...I'm sure I'd be blown away.

slugworth · #13 12-13-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big nebula

I joined her website and posted on her forum and asked her straight-forward questions regarding bass progressions in jazz and the whole thread got out of control,totally at Carol's hands and her mis-understanding and lack of ability to read beyond the typed word...I don't have much time for her as a person due to the way she banned me from her site and at the same time had a laugh at me in doing so.She is a very arrogant and self-centered female.
No acolades from this quarter.

>>>> You're not the only one that has happened to. It's quite common. Carol Kaye is quite simply, a jerk.

Slug

slackdaddy · #14 12-14-2006, 12:55 PM

Mrs. Kaye has worked hard throughout her life and I believe that she feels that she has largely been ignored. She simply has her own opinions and is not afraid to let you know but we all have to face the facts that she is probably the most recorded bassist in history and has a right to speak her mind. Whether you agree with her or not is up to you. I communicate with her fairly often and have found her to be very kind. I just never discuss topics with her that I know will "set her off" such as the "IWMTLH" Jamerson debate or sampling. She is a purist but she has earned the right. I will also say that just because she doesn't like certain styles does not make them wrong. The instrument is only 56 years old so there is a world of possibilities. She is someone I feel we could all learn a great deal from. Whether you are a fan of hers or not she HAS influenced your playing either directly or from those that learned from or emulated her.

emblymouse · #15 12-14-2006, 02:19 PM

I just finished the new Brian Wilson book and was dipping into some Beach Boys for frame of reference. I was really taken by the strength and relative prominence in the mix the bass often had. I never noticed this before. I don't know who to credit for this, Ms. Kaye or Mr. Wilson. Really cool tones, too.

Big nebula · #16 12-16-2006, 06:17 PM

There's a whole pool of 'great bassists' who have contributed to the 'scene' but I will remember Carol Kaye for her nasty personality,not her so called abilities.