hitting the studio

diechris · #1 05-16-2009, 12:08 PM

So its going to be my first time in a real studio and not some little "pro" home studio. Its out of state and I can on be down there for half of the time we got there. I opted for the later half because I want to make sure I am there for the final mix and sure as hell dont want my bass to be buried in the mix. My bass is very upfront live and I don't want to loose that in the studio.

Our drummer is a professional musician who is helping us out right now and says that usually the the drums get laid first and then the bass.

Is there something I am missing? any reasons why it would be essential for me to lay down tracks before the guitars and vocals?

We play newer metal a long the lines between black dalia murder and carnifax...

Steve · #2 05-16-2009, 02:53 PM

It's been my experience that the rhythm section, including the basic guitar keeper tracks get put down as a unit.

Anything else is usually just scratch.

grifff · #3 05-16-2009, 02:55 PM

When we recorded the drums were laid first, then the rhythm guitar then the bass.

deekay911 · #4 05-16-2009, 03:09 PM

Yep, rhythm section first, drums and bass, then guitar, lead and vocals whenever you like. You and the drummer are usually out of there before halftime. It helps to do drums and bass first so you get the groove locked in. It will be a lot easier for the guitarist(s) to add their parts with the whole rhythm section in place.

diechris · #5 05-16-2009, 03:24 PM

thanks for the feedback guys... Rhythm section is recorded first to help lock in groove and make it easier for the guitarist.

I have no doubt that I can lay down my tracks spot on in half the time. I will have no choice.

For the most part I follow the second guitarist and add my fills here and there so I don't think It would be a problem to have him lay tracks before me. I play metal... and there is no groove... just riff and timing. Anyone of use can put on a click and play the song without each other.

Am I safe to assume It would be more worthwhile to show up for the second half and be there during the mixing?

Sorry I am not trying to shoot down advise to a question I put out.. I'm just mainly wondering if there was a key factor I did not know about the recording process that called for bass tracks being recorded before guitars.

capnsandwich · #6 05-16-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

Am I safe to assume It would be more worthwhile to show up for the second half and be there during the mixing?

Sorry I am not trying to shoot down advise to a question I put out.. I'm just mainly wondering if there was a key factor I did not know about the recording process that called for bass tracks being recorded before guitars.

You can lay down your tracks with the drummer and either keep the scratch tracks or you can record new ones but the drummer goes first. It would be cheaper for you guys and more beneficial to just record with the drummer through headphones and just keep your track and punch in little mistakes or changes you want to make in your bass lines. You can always sit in during the mix down session. You don't necessarily have to be gone for that.

diechris · #7 05-16-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

You can lay down your tracks with the drummer and either keep the scratch tracks or you can record new ones but the drummer goes first. It would be cheaper for you guys and more beneficial to just record with the drummer through headphones and just keep your track and punch in little mistakes or changes you want to make in your bass lines. You can always sit in during the mix down session. You don't necessarily have to be gone for that.

Its either or dude. I can only be there for the beginning half or ending half. Money isn't the issue. Personally I would rather be there for the mixing. So I am asking If there is some reason other then what has already been stated for bass needing to be recorded before guitars?

wildhorse · #8 05-16-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

So its going to be my first time in a real studio and not some little "pro" home studio. Its out of state and I can on be down there for half of the time we got there. I opted for the later half because I want to make sure I am there for the final mix and sure as hell dont want my bass to be buried in the mix. My bass is very upfront live and I don't want to loose that in the studio.

Our drummer is a professional musician who is helping us out right now and says that usually the the drums get laid first and then the bass.

Is there something I am missing? any reasons why it would be essential for me to lay down tracks before the guitars and vocals?

We play newer metal a long the lines between black dalia murder and carnifax...

Have them make sure they record you on an isolated track.
By the way McCartney used to lay down his bass parts last.
You might tell them that.

wildhorse · #9 05-16-2009, 04:06 PM

It's a Pro Studio why don't they record you all at once in isolated areas so that the whole live band thing grooves, gells, whatever? I've been a drummer longer than anything else and still can't understand why anyone would want the drums down first.
Why not just get a drum machine, ouch!?
I personally play to the vocals as much as anything else. When I record I usually record my own music I generally lay down a vocal track with Rythym guitar and then go back and add bass, drums, lead etc. and sometimes the drums are last. Each track is isolated so any individual track can be changed.

62Jazzbass · #10 05-16-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

Its either or dude. I can only be there for the beginning half or ending half. Personally I would rather be there for the mixing.

Well, then, I think you have your answer, as you seem bent on being there for the mix.

Of course I might suggest you trust the guy on the other side of the console to do your music justice. You did say you are going to a "pro" studio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

So I am asking If there is some reason other then what has already been stated for bass needing to be recorded before guitars?

"Need to be", no. Should it be, well, maybe. Sampling and all that other crap has changed the rules regarding available sounds at mix time, BUT, the engineer might prefer to hear what you guys (Drums/Bass, and maybe even basic guitars) sound like together to make some decisions regarding tones to capture on "tape". Too many people think everything can be fixed in the mix.

If he has laid a certain bass drum sound to tape that doesn't really work with your bass when you come in after the drummer has gone packing, you guys are now boxed into a corner a bit. Unless he changes your sound to fit - OR - cranks up a sampled kick drum that works better.

Just sayin.

62Jazzbass · #11 05-16-2009, 04:29 PM

Also, you might do well to ask your question on this forum, to get multiple recording engineers views on the subject.

http://thewombforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5

Lots to learn there.

diechris · #12 05-16-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62Jazzbass

If he has laid a certain bass drum sound to tape that doesn't really work with your bass when you come in after the drummer has gone packing, you guys are now boxed into a corner a bit. Unless he changes your sound to fit - OR - cranks up a sampled kick drum that works better.

Just sayin.

The two guitarist and drummer with be there the entire. We already recorded scratch tracks in our studio here in town and will be recorded as done on the tracks.

Quote:

Well, then, I think you have your answer, as you seem bent on being there for the mix

I am planning on that but If necessary I can be there for the beginning instead.

Quote:

BUT, the engineer might prefer to hear what you guys (Drums/Bass, and maybe even basic guitars) sound like together to make some decisions regarding tones to capture on "tape". Too many people think everything can be fixed in the mix.

I think the would be the thing that will get me if it comes to it. If it came down to fixing something pre-tape or trusting the engineer to do you justice which would you go for?

A lot of metal nowadays drown out the bassist and that is what I'm worried about.

diechris · #13 05-16-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62Jazzbass

Also, you might do well to ask your question on this forum, to get multiple recording engineers views on the subject.

http://thewombforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5

Lots to learn there.

awesome! thank you for the link

62Jazzbass · #14 05-16-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

If it came down to <snip> trusting the engineer to do you justice which would you go for?

Well, there is the rub. I AM an engineer, as well as a bass player. FWIW, I'm not a pro in either, although I was a pro live AE for a number of years, so I'm no hack.

Short version is, if you have heard the AEs work and like it (if it's similar music), I would trust him.

That is me putting faith in a fellow AE and as a bass player, wanting to track my parts with the drummer.

62Jazzbass · #15 05-16-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

awesome! thank you for the link

You are very welcome. The knowledge to be found there is incredible.

It's not a warm and fuzzy crowd though, so be warned when you post your question. You might get slammed initially for coming off as not trusting the AE. But tough it out and don't get defensive and you'll learn a TON.

There is a guy named OTEK that does a lot of metal stuff, he knows the deal. He's from Sweden I think.

Gotta go eat, more later.

62Jazzbass · #16 05-16-2009, 10:21 PM

Dude, this thread
http://thewombforums.com/showthread.php?t=10844
is a great read. While it has “nothing” to do with your initial question, it actually has EVERYTHING to do with your original question. Particularly around pages 4/5/6.

Read through it and you’ll see what I mean. It gets to my point about you being there with your drummer for tracking, rather than having everyone just do their stuff in no particular order ‘cuz everyone can synch up to the click.

And again, these guys are pros, with a number of charting records under their belts, some of them.