Interject some Jazz runs into my playing..some good players to listen to?

[quadrogong]

I'm basically using the same major,minor,pentatonic scales now for most of my playing life..

My influences are more rock,blues based...
I have some good country blues,ragtime,even some minor classical influences..(an occasional diminished or harmonic minor run here and there..heh heh )

I can fake being jazzy, kind of noodle around a major 7th scale,whatever..
but my playing has definitely hit a brick wall,I remember when I was about 12, I discovered the pentatonic scale and jammed to a clapton Live 8 track all night,thinking I'd discovered "the secret" to lead guitar,or rock playing..
I need some eye-opening new scales,modes..licks..

I'm thinking of taking lessons from a jazz guitar player or something,to just expand my vocabulary somewhat..

I'm dying to slip some tasty jazz runs into my playing, just to expand my chord knowledge,spice up solo parts,and well, I feel it's just the next step,to go beyond the bluesy and pentatonic stuff,and cop a few licks like some of the jazzier players do..
I enjoy watching Tal Wilkenfeld play with Jeff beck on YouTube, and I copped a lick or two from her myspace site,but it'd also be nice to understand what the licks were based on,
I love Jaco,Mingus,,Gary Willis,Pattitucci..that fretless-uprightish style..but I rarely ever slip that stuff into my actual playing,I'd love to take a beautiful solo with some more "exotic" sounding licks..to break free from the walls of major-minor-pentatonic


My question is..are there some good albums I should get that are loaded with some good jazz solos,runs..etc
where I can cop a few licks?
or some advice in general?

I'd love to listen to Coltrane and actually understand a bit of what he's doing!

[TeeMartin]

Mr. Dorian and Mr. Lydian are your two new best friends. And Mr. Chromatic is now your new boss.

[quadrogong]

the more jazz I soak up, I reallize it's just as much the rhythm of these soloists,the phrasing,there's a certain bounce or groove that it has..trying to just listen alot,and play along to videos etc..

found this online:
although i havnt read the whole page yet,wondering what the sttttst's are..
does this make sense?..

Jazz Scales based on the C Melodic Minor

D Dorian 2b (Dorian Flat 2): D Eb F G A B C D STTTTST

Eb Lydian augmented (Lydian 5# or Lydian Sharp 5):
Eb F G A B C D Eb TTTTSTS

F Lydian 7b (Mixolydian 4# or Mixolydian Sharp 4):
F G A B C D Eb F TTTSTST

G Mixolydian 6b (Mixolydian Flat 6):
G A B C D Eb F G TTSTSTT

A Aeolian 5b (Minor 5b or Minor Flat 5):
A B C D Eb F G A TSTSTTT

B Superlocrian
(Locrian 4b, Locrian Flat 4 or Diminished Whole Tone):
B C D Eb F G A B STSTTTT

C Hypoionian (Melodic Minor):
C D Eb F G A B C TSTTTTS

[Norwegianwood]

Remember you can really sound jazzy just playing pentatonic and throwing in some chromatics. That´s how I fake it, at least....Works nice to do fills and stuff in funky music, for instance. I´d say copying some Marcus Miller licks could do wonders for that.

[phxlbrmpf]

I've been wanting to do the same thing and recently discovered a scale that's pretty much vanilla Dorian but uses the b6 instead of the major 6th when played downwards, it sounds pretty damn cool. I think the TTS thing denotes whole tones and semitones, by the way.

[quadrogong]

chromatic,dorian..marcus.. check..
heh heh, funny to hear other folks "fake" being jazzy,

[Hoover]

I am constantly amazed at how many brilliant talented skilled bassists can still get a ton of mileage out of pentatonic and blues scales. In the hands of a wanker - eg, me -- those rudimentary materials sound as bereft of harmonic interest as my earliest pre-teen bedroom experiments...but in the hands of a pro, there's a lot of hunt left in that dog.

And yet, you rarely hear a jazz guitarist or horn player afforded that same charitible assessment. They're still required to be harmonically adventurous, or else they're banished to the Banal Department. Why is that, I wonder? Which is why (he says, digressing even further off topic) I find Jeff Berlin's playing so impressive despite his arrogant attitude, opinionated didacticism, and polo shirts tucked into high-waisted trousers. That dude's harmonic/melodic vocabulary is miles above all but a tiny handful of virtuosos'.

Check out John Scofield's use of pentatonics: He's really clever at recontextualizing them by playing what could otherwise be a harmonically cliched lick but offsetting the tonal center. I.e., If the band is playing in D, rather than rattle off a lame-ass D minor pentatonic lick, Sco will play that lick in Eb minor pentatonic . And then resolve it exquisitely, of course.

Um, where were we? Oh right, interjecting jazz runs into your playing. One thing I've learned is that context dictates all. If you're playing in a meat&potatoes rock/blues band, you might not want to interject jazz runs. (Or your bandmates might not want you to, at any rate.) It might seem hip to your musicianly ear, but to most folks in the audience -- as well as the professional musicians who might also be listening -- it just sounds wrong.

[Ostinato]

Originally Posted by Hoover

One thing I've learned is that context dictates all. If you're playing in a meat&potatoes rock/blues band, you might not want to interject jazz runs. (Or your bandmates might not want you to, at any rate.) It might seem hip to your musicianly ear, but to most folks in the audience -- as well as the professional musicians who might also be listening -- it just sounds wrong.

Yep.

The best way to interject some Jazz into your playing is start jamming with someone who plays it. Otherwise all those fancy passing tones and diminished runs you'll be learning won't sound right!

[Reckless]

Originally Posted by Norwegianwood

Remember you can really sound jazzy just playing pentatonic and throwing in some chromatics. That´s how I fake it, at least....Works nice to do fills and stuff in funky music, for instance. I´d say copying some Marcus Miller licks could do wonders for that.

That's what I typically do, along with arpeggios to out line chords. I never really considered it "faking jazz" since I thought thats how jazz players take there approach to it.

Sorry don't really anything useful to add to the post quadrogong.

[funkydanbass]

By the way, the S's and T's stand for tone and semitone...
For example:

D Dorian 2b (Dorian Flat 2): D Eb F G A B C D STTTTST

D - Eb is a semitone
Eb - F is a tone
F - G is a tone

etc etc

Just the building blocks or 'formula' of the modes listed above.

[Norwegianwood]

Originally Posted by Reckless

That's what I typically do, along with arpeggios to out line chords. I never really considered it "faking jazz" since I thought thats how jazz players take there approach to it.

Sorry don't really anything useful to add to the post quadrogong.

Whether you fake it or not is mainly a question of how good you are at it. Personally I could never hold my ground - at least as a soloist - in any jazz trio playing standards. But I know some jazzlicks and do somehow have a feel for it. So when called for I fill inn some licks that would make someone who don´t know better believe I was infact a jazz player. And unless you really play jazz, it does the job.

[quadrogong]

heh heh,thanks fellas..
and no,my band isn't jazzy,or fusion-esque, but we do have touches of the avante garde or something.. I'd say,

the compositions are all in odd tunings and have some cool chordal things going on.wierd substitutions,etc..
.and yeah,tossing a jeff berlin lick in now and then isn't my goal,it would be cheezy in a rock scenerio,,I agree,
but...
I'm sure u know what I mean when your playing
hits a brick wall?..the same tireds scales and licks just get faster,huh?
I need to have some knowledge of more exotic chords,scales..

..and while maybe a jazzy cliche here and there might be fun to learn,and sound cool..
my intention is to expand my soloing vocabulary..and generally have more colorful lines in my playing...and avoid the cliches a little more.

some good feedback,thanks.

[VincentPuleo]

My current teacher Kevin Brown wrote a book with every scale and mode... really good reference. You can check that out on www.lemurmusic.com