jaco fan thinks heavy weather sounds dated

mozarwasagenius · #1 12-27-2007, 09:26 AM

Am I the only one who can't listen to the album anymore ... the synths drive me nutty and birdland sounds so muzac. The arrangements just sound dated/cheezy

I just had to get that off my chest

Yes, I am a fan of Jaco and think he was an incredible musician (let alone bassist)

Teen Town has an amazing bassline. That and 5:15 by the Who are my favorites

Otso · #2 12-27-2007, 09:32 AM

I can't stand Birdland or Remark you made, they sound so cheesy. The rest of the album ranges from blah (Palladium), to great (Havona).

Lucas G · #3 12-27-2007, 09:43 AM

i bought it back in 94, there was a bass player where i worked that suggested it to me. i found a copy at a flea market for a buck.

it sounded dated then, too. those cats are just not for me.

NEWYEARKID · #4 12-27-2007, 10:20 AM

I wonder if by the same thought process such seminal recordings as the early Miles Davis, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Charlie Parker, Motown, all the 70's Funk/R & B/Disco or 70's prog rock is any more dated? I took to heart something Satriani said in a 90's interview...."Some of the greatest musical performances ever were recorded with primitive technology...does that dimish their impact?"
Does Jaco sound anymore dated than Chris Squire, Larry Graham, Louis Johnson or James Jamerson? I hope to one day sound as dated as these fine players/innovators/icons.
You have to put things into historical perspective. Now that Jaco has inspired untold legions of bassists worldwide some tend to dismiss his impact: ask Pino Palladino, Gary Willis, Alain Caron or countless other luminaries about Jaco. Look at Van Halen he was a trailblazer and now we hear that kind of playing on beer/car commercials..it begs the question who innovated it? Who else at the time could do it? Don't be so quick to pass judgement. I know you're entitled to your opinion....I'd hate to
see you miss out on a lot of great music/inspiration for sonic reasons. I wish you guys all the best in this upcoming year.

agreatheight · #5 12-27-2007, 10:34 AM

I agree that it sounds dated, the production for sure but also some of the melodies.

bongomania · #6 12-27-2007, 10:35 AM

I listen to a really, really broad range of music from all recorded eras. Some of it stands the test of time aesthetically, and some, honestly and IMO, does not. You can take the greatest musicians and give them some bad production, and that's what we're stuck with. Of course it's still important to listen to the great voices that came before us in order to learn from them- but that doesn't mean the medicine tastes good going down.

stingray56funk · #7 12-27-2007, 10:36 AM

I still freakin' love it! I don't know if it is the cheesy synth sounds...or what...but they were fantastic! Bring on the cheesy Weather Report! People die to get their hands on that old cheesy gear nowadays.

57pbass · #8 12-27-2007, 11:30 AM

They captured the technology and the sounds from that era..cheezy might be a stretch..

Lucas G · #9 12-27-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWYEARKID

I wonder if by the same thought process such seminal recordings as the early Miles Davis, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Charlie Parker, Motown, all the 70's Funk/R & B/Disco or 70's prog rock is any more dated? I took to heart something Satriani said in a 90's interview...."Some of the greatest musical performances ever were recorded with primitive technology...does that dimish their impact?"
Does Jaco sound anymore dated than Chris Squire, Larry Graham, Louis Johnson or James Jamerson? I hope to one day sound as dated as these fine players/innovators/icons.
You have to put things into historical perspective. Now that Jaco has inspired untold legions of bassists worldwide some tend to dismiss his impact: ask Pino Palladino, Gary Willis, Alain Caron or countless other luminaries about Jaco. Look at Van Halen he was a trailblazer and now we hear that kind of playing on beer/car commercials..it begs the question who innovated it? Who else at the time could do it? Don't be so quick to pass judgement. I know you're entitled to your opinion....I'd hate to
see you miss out on a lot of great music/inspiration for sonic reasons. I wish you guys all the best in this upcoming year.

to me, it is stylistically dated. yes albums do not sound dated to me, at least not in a negative way- but then i love rock. i also love the style of music jamerson played. 70's funk does not sound dated to me, at least not for the worse. disco does sound dated, but that is part of its charm. sabbath does not sound dated to me ever, but a lot of rush does.

many of those are classic records made with classic instruments. a hammond B3 never sounds dated to me, despite its primitive technology. same with basses, guitars, etc. yet early synth and drum machine stuff doesn't always age well, of course you can use that to an advantage sometimes.

there are also some recording/mastering techniques that aged poorly. 80's big reverb on everything, the 'packaged' digital synths of the 80's... that kind of stuff. a moog sounds deliciously dated, but some patches from a yamaha dx7 sound poorly dated.

not all old technology aged poorly, but a lot of new technology in its early development stages sure did.

h00t · #10 12-27-2007, 12:07 PM

Try watching some television from the 70s or 80s right now. See how 'dated' it looks? Remember how it looked just fine when you first watched it back then? The same goes for all recorded media.

Jeramaya · #11 12-27-2007, 12:37 PM

There are a lot of classic and brilliant recordings that I can't listen to--or rather have never been able to get into. Take some of that early Miles, for example, or Weather Report--it just does nothing for me. I understand it's historical importance, but my ears are more accustomed to other musical feats. I can still listen to "Heavy Weather" once in awhile and appreciate it for some reasons, but it's not something I enjoy. My tastes run counter, especially when keyboards (Tribal Tech also comes to mind) or certain vocal styles are involved. Other things from the 70's, including Miles and King Crimson, are just as relevant to me now and I don't think they sound particularly dated, yet they played on "primitive" technology.

--Just another two pennies from the Internet...

mozarwasagenius · #12 12-27-2007, 01:57 PM

I actually think Jaco's first solo album which came out before Heavy Weather has withstood the test of time much better.

There are plenty of older recordings I think sound just as good today (most of Led Zepplin, Queen, I could go on).

I'll step back now

Dbassmon · #13 12-27-2007, 02:32 PM

Dated, not sue that is exactly right.

The music captures a moment in time. The technology of the synths definitely places them in an era just as much as the sum of the players life experiences does. Listen to a baroque concerto... it has the same limitation.... as any work of art does. To say Bach sounds dated does not diminish his brilliance.

The music in no less valid, it still was incredibly ground breaking.

So we have become a little jaded. Still to this day, I see no one that made an impact on modern bass playing any where near what Jaco did. It's 30 years later. So some of us may forget that he changed what we thought was possible on the bass.

A lot of guys have copied his thing... but it's still his thing.

bongomania · #14 12-27-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mozarwasagenius

There are plenty of older recordings I think sound just as good today (most of Led Zepplin, Queen, I could go on).

Absolutely, that's what I was trying to say before. All the replies that "all older music sounds dated, get over it" are way off base, as I can name dozens and dozens of records that have a "timeless" quality to the sound- even ones using synths and drum machines. There's just an organic quality to the sounds/tones/production used that makes an instrument sound "right" to me regardless of what year it was recorded. Conversely, of course, some musicians and producers make terrible choices about the sounds they use sometimes -or at least those choices seem terrible to me years later.

lambro · #15 12-27-2007, 02:42 PM

I never listen to them anymore, sure there are some highlights but I dont care to revisit them, and yes Jaco's first release has stood the test of time like a pillar (same with Bright Sized Life by Metheny and Joni Mitchells stuff with Jaco)

I dont mind listening to Wakeman/Moraz from the same era

Zawinul just doesnt do it for me, to boot he turned Jaco on to heroin...

JimK · #16 12-27-2007, 02:53 PM

FWIW, I never dug the "cheesy-sounding" '70s synths (or the Mattel Toy-like drum machines) when they were the 'cutting edge'.
So, for me in the '70s, there were definitely some WR, RTF, & MO pieces where I forced myself to tune out the synth parts...I can understand why people may sense what the OP is talking about.
Nowadaze, I'm more tolerant (maybe I'm being nostalgic?).

Basshappi · #17 12-27-2007, 02:59 PM

It sounds just fine to me.

I appreciate music for what it is and if it happens to sound "dated" that can't be helped, the artist was using the instruments and recording equipment that was available to them at the time. To me, if the music is good, it is not diminished by the then-available technology.

I was listening to Fragile last week and thinking about how fantastic that album sounds. In fact my 14 yr old daughter were listening to it on the way to do some shopping and we sat in the car listening to We Have Heaven/South Side of the Sky and she was totally blown away, she's now a serious Yes fan!

Alan Vorse · #18 12-27-2007, 03:27 PM

This thread kind of reminds me how many younger people don't enjoy watching old movies because they are in black and white. I guess when watching an old movie, old TV show or listening to older music, I try to take into account the technology of the times and see what it has to offer. Lately I've been listening to a lot of music from the 50s-early 60s and kind of prefer the way it sounds.

As for Heavy Weather, I don't listen to it as much as other fusion albums because I would rather have my skull crushed by the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I don't know if that says more about the production, or the writing.

sk8terguy316 · #19 12-27-2007, 03:41 PM

I thoroughly emjoy Weather Report and Heavy Weather, but I can see what you're talking about. I guess they did not do as well using the "cutting-edge" synths. (I don't see it as dated, but others do). I think if you listen to any of Stevie Wonder's golden era of CD's (Talking Book,Innervisions,Fulfillingness First Finale,Songs in The Key of Life") among others, you will hear the "cutting edge" synths being used in a way that does not sound dated at all.

idoru · #20 12-27-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

All the replies that "all older music sounds dated, get over it" are way off base, as I can name dozens and dozens of records that have a "timeless" quality to the sound- even ones using synths and drum machines.

I was just listening to "Wish you were here" the other day for about the gazillionth time. I'm still surprised at how cool the synths are on that album - pure analogue goodness