Jaco's work with Joni Mitchell

Hejira · #1 07-26-2008, 11:36 AM

For all the talk I hear about how influencial Jaco was (he surely was) and all the copycats out there.... I can't find ANYTHING that sounds like him. As I am not a Jazz fan and prefer songs with vocals, I've been dying to find something similar to his work with Joni Mitchell - particularly the Hejira and Don Juan albums. Jazzy, warm, evocative bass that doesn't necessarily lay down the beat but is allowed to wander around the song. My main music friend has pretty much told me I won't find anything like those albums.

I really enjoy alot of post-punk bass playing that gets put up front in the mix - Joy Division, Magazine, Japan, PiL, etc. But I've yet to find anything that sounds like Jaco does on his work with Joni Mitchell. Anyone have any ideas? thanks

**Mark Wilson** · #2 07-26-2008, 11:52 AM

Jaco did a lot with Joni Mitchell that KILLS. I'm a huge Jaco fan, and his Joni stuff is my favourite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbPorrmjWHM - Dry Cleaner from Des Moines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFM-Z...eature=related - In France They Kiss On Main Street

The 2nd tune is my favourite Jaco bass line. I don't think he plays the same lick twice. Just KILLS on this track.

Anyway, check out anything from Joni Mitchell's "Shadows and Light" DVD. Just an insane line up.
Joni Mitchell, Michael Brecker, Jaco Pastorius, Don Alias, Pat Metheny.

Just scary...

MixBass · #3 07-26-2008, 12:15 PM

+1 on the Shadows and Light DVD. Jaco is in his prime there. And it will be tough to find anything like he did on those recordings. A perfect storm of personalities and abilities happened there.

kesslari · #4 07-26-2008, 12:32 PM

Most of the "Jaco copyists" took his licks and his tone, and copied his solo stuff (and sometimes did similar things) - not the best of his ensemble playing, as with Joni.
Then again, that was a pretty special ensemble, and seemed to bring out the best in all the players.

Broseph · #5 07-26-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hejira

I've been dying to find something similar to his work with Joni Mitchell - particularly the Hejira and Don Juan albums. Jazzy, warm, evocative bass that doesn't necessarily lay down the beat but is allowed to wander around the song.

I kind of find it hard to really get into his stuff on those studio albums simply because he's not really playing bass at all. He's just kind of using the fretless as a means to "sing" all over the place. The Shadows and Light CD/DVD is much easier to get into because it's more like the classic, grooving Jaco we know and love. I think the only other recording that even comes remotely close to how light-hearted his playing was on the albums you mention would have to be his playing on Bright Size Life with Pat Metheny. It's not as sparse but with his style of playing, coupled with a trio setting, it definately reminds me of when a bass is not a bass at all. Even if you don't necessarily enjoy jazz, this CD is surprisingly easy to listen to, without being easy listening at all. Recommend the title track and "Midwestern Nights Dream".

Hejira · #6 07-26-2008, 12:36 PM

Yeah, i already have and adore the Shadows and Light stuff. In fact, I've been trying to find bootlegs online from that tour but haven't had much luck.

Hejira · #7 07-26-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broseph

I kind of find it hard to really get into his stuff on those studio albums simply because he's not really playing bass at all. He's just kind of using the fretless as a means to "sing" all over the place. The Shadows and Light CD/DVD is much easier to get into because it's more like the classic, grooving Jaco we know and love. I think the only other recording that even comes remotely close to how light-hearted his playing was on the albums you mention would have to be his playing on Bright Size Life with Pat Metheny. It's not as sparse but with his style of playing, coupled with a trio setting, it definately reminds me of when a bass is not a bass at all. Even if you don't necessarily enjoy jazz, this CD is surprisingly easy to listen to, without being easy listening at all. Recommend the title track and "Midwestern Nights Dream".

I guess I'm looking for that sing-y stuff. I love all of Shadows and Light, but my favorite songs are ones when you'd probly agree he wasn't doing much grooving (Hejira, Talk to Me, Refuge of the Roads).

I already have Bright Size Life, and it's quite good though the more "song" structure of his work with Joni is what I really prefer. Thanks.

Broseph · #8 07-26-2008, 12:49 PM

It would take a singer with a pint-sized ego to let the bass player do what Joni let Jaco do. Not to mention a bass player with the imagination to not play a single "bass line" (but in a good way!). Good luck finding that.

Marcury · #9 07-26-2008, 01:00 PM

I don't think there really is anything like the Joni/Jaco partnership out there.

Hejira · #10 07-26-2008, 01:07 PM

lol. i was afraid of that.

RHFusillo · #11 07-26-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

Jaco did a lot with Joni Mitchell that KILLS. I'm a huge Jaco fan, and his Joni stuff is my favourite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbPorrmjWHM - Dry Cleaner from Des Moines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFM-Z...eature=related - In France They Kiss On Main Street

The 2nd tune is my favourite Jaco bass line. I don't think he plays the same lick twice. Just KILLS on this track.

Anyway, check out anything from Joni Mitchell's "Shadows and Light" DVD. Just an insane line up.
Joni Mitchell, Michael Brecker, Jaco Pastorius, Don Alias, Pat Metheny.

Thanks for posting those links! Although I bought the "Shadows and Light" LPs when they first came out and played them to death, I have never seen the video. I'm struck by how young everybody looked (and how alive, in the case of half the group), and by how beautiful Joni was.

ForestThump · #12 07-26-2008, 01:15 PM

Frankly the playing on the two videos that were mentioned in the original post seems to be very good solid jazz bass playing, nothing more, nothing less. I feel it a bit invasive at times and most of the time I think it would have sounded much better on an upright bass.
There are many, many jazz bass players in this league:
Charlie Haden, Dave Holland, et al.

BassieMike · #13 07-26-2008, 01:22 PM

[quote=Mark Wilson;6043584]Jaco did a lot with Joni Mitchell that KILLS. I'm a huge Jaco fan, and his Joni stuff is my favourite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbPorrmjWHM - Dry Cleaner from Des Moines

/QUOTE]

Did you catch the look on Brecker's face at the end of the tune after Jaco stomped all over the end of his solo?

Gordon of Eden · #14 07-26-2008, 02:59 PM

On youtube there is a clip of Richard Bona and Janis Ian doing a duet of "At Seventeen". It is very nice and definitely in that Joni/Jaco vibe.

jerry · #15 07-26-2008, 03:48 PM

Some of Michael Manring's work with Patty Larkin is a little reminiscent of the Jaco/Joni match-up. But IMHO, the Joni/Jaco hookups was one of the most magical to ever be laid to tape, it would take another meeting of the Gods to match it.

**Mark Wilson** · #16 07-26-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassieMike

Did you catch the look on Brecker's face at the end of the tune after Jaco stomped all over the end of his solo?

Do you mean that insane triplet thing?
Cause if so, that's in the tune. It's the intro and outro on the recording.

frankie5string · #17 07-27-2008, 09:46 AM

Wow, thanks guys for providing some decent examples without having to trek through the entire Mitchell catalogue to find them...

I've been asked about Jaco since I started playing fretless, and it actually took a few years for me to become interested. I was more closely aligned with Pino Palladino and the sound that Alain Caron was getting around 2003...

For me, about 90% of the stuff Jaco did (his solo stuff) was utterly unsupportive and seemingly ego driven. There's far too much diddling there that was there because he was the first to create and use that tone... But this particular song has a fantastic groove - I still feel he could groove that tone far better and that his reputation as a soloist was really overblown.

Bass Aficionado · #18 07-27-2008, 10:05 AM

I love Hejira - it has even spent time as my favorite album. As great as Jaco is on this disk, realize that there are other bass players on the albun, as well. Check the liner notes to see who plays what.

PS - I can say that I finally felt like an accomplished player once I could do Coyote. What a great tune. It is a shame that Jaco had the issues he did and his career was hit and miss and way too short.

Funk 'N' Stein · #19 07-27-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForestThump

Frankly the playing on the two videos that were mentioned in the original post seems to be very good solid jazz bass playing, nothing more, nothing less. I feel it a bit invasive at times and most of the time I think it would have sounded much better on an upright bass.
There are many, many jazz bass players in this league:
Charlie Haden, Dave Holland, et al.

I'll be as diplomatic as possible and say that those two guys, while excellent players, were never in Jaco's league. Ask Don Alias whom he would have preferred playing with. I tell you...it wouldnt have been Haden or Holland.

As for your comment about the music sounding better on upright bass....Well.... lets just say that we'll have to disagree STRONGLY on that point.

Broseph · #20 07-27-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixBass

+1 on the Shadows and Light DVD.

-1 on the guy figure skating during Hejira, when I would actually like to see what's going on. After Pat Metheny's solo, I usually just turn off the tv and listen to Hejira with a blank screen.