Jeff Berlin: Private bass lesson!

[DWBass]

I think in Zappa's case, he was probably messing with Steve since he told him he had the gig. I get where Jeff is coming from but sometimes ya gotta take the cerebral aspect out of the equation every now and then. I can't see him teaching really young kids with that approach. I wonder if that video was staged a bit. The guy was a very accomplished player as he took just about everything Jeff threw at him.

[JimmyM]

Anyone who thought this was mean is doing themselves a disservice. Anyone who wants to be mollycoddled while learning how to play doesn't really want to learn how to play. It's amazing to me how people who buy a bass and have absolutely no knowledge of how music works thinks they should have a say in how they are taught and how their lessons should go. You think doctors go to med school and demand that they be taught medicine their way? That's the quick route to a 1st semester flunkout. Yet many beginning musicians are quite comfortable in dictating to teachers how they should be taught. Jeff ain't having it, nor should he. You take a lesson from Jeff, you need to shut up and listen and do what you're told and appreciate everything he tells you.

BTW, not speaking to guys like Fritz who thought it was brutal but respected what was taught

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by bassinplace

Interesting, but. He's recommending that one should study things they aren't familiar with. Kinda goes without saying, me thinks.

Beat me to it.



+1!

[RCCollins]

This is a great clip and I want to give Jeff credit for expressing the importance of theory in an encouraging, rather than discouraging way. That isn't always easy to do with a point you are passionate about that many folks don't want to hear...

[tekdiver500ft]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

...
BTW, not speaking to guys like Fritz who thought it was brutal but respected what was taught

Thank, Jimmy. The thing is, brutal works.

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by RCCollins

This is a great clip and I want to give Jeff credit for expressing the importance of theory in an encouraging, rather than discouraging way. That isn't always easy to do with a point you are passionate about that many folks don't want to hear...

Because people have a hard time just learning the theory without an "art" exemple. What Jeff try to teach the theory so everyone can do the right thing at any time, the "art" part is up to the player. Will you play the root, then 3rd and finally the 5th or will you play the root then the 5th and finaly the 3rd ? this is up to you because they are the same in the theory side of thing.

So yeah cudos for Jeff. In fact, what he teaches is the exact same thing I've learn during ma college degree on the classical DB. Sure you have to learn how to use the instrument without injuring yourself but you also have to learn theory with a different teacher. So you don't learn bass theory, you learn music theory.

Sure it is hard and I still have a lot of road ahead, but this is how it is done and it is hard

[DJ Bebop]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I think in Zappa's case, he was probably messing with Steve since he told him he had the gig. I get where Jeff is coming from but sometimes ya gotta take the cerebral aspect out of the equation every now and then. I can't see him teaching really young kids with that approach. I wonder if that video was staged a bit. The guy was a very accomplished player as he took just about everything Jeff threw at him.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Anyone who thought this was mean is doing themselves a disservice. Anyone who wants to be mollycoddled while learning how to play doesn't really want to learn how to play. It's amazing to me how people who buy a bass and have absolutely no knowledge of how music works thinks they should have a say in how they are taught and how their lessons should go. You think doctors go to med school and demand that they be taught medicine their way? That's the quick route to a 1st semester flunkout. Yet many beginning musicians are quite comfortable in dictating to teachers how they should be taught. Jeff ain't having it, nor should he. You take a lesson from Jeff, you need to shut up and listen and do what you're told and appreciate everything he tells you.

BTW, not speaking to guys like Fritz who thought it was brutal but respected what was taught

There's a video out there (maybe on his Facebook) that Jeff is talking about rock or something that I would not think of him talking positive about
Anyway it's a lesson and his delivery is so good I showed it to my wife and she noted that his demeanor was good for kids, his approach was pretty gently.

I think he was showing some rock riff, any riff you like to play but, running it through all the keys. No big head stuff just getting used to the neck, in a pretty sweet way

I think he even broke down some rock tune and showed the music theory behind the riffs and how you could use that riff, theory on other rock tunes.

It made me ask out loud, is this the same Jeff Berlin?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by DJ Bebop

There's a video out there (maybe on his Facebook) that Jeff is talking about rock or something that I would not think of him talking positive about
Anyway it's a lesson and his delivery is so good I showed it to my wife and she noted that his demeanor was good for kids, his approach was pretty gently.

I think he was showing some rock riff, any riff you like to play but, running it through all the keys. No big head stuff just getting used to the neck, in a pretty sweet way

I think he even broke down some rock tune and showed the music theory behind the riffs and how you could use that riff, theory on other rock tunes.

It made me ask out loud, is this the same Jeff Berlin?

Well a visit to his Facebook page reveals that Jeff still speaks pretty bluntly about other topics But I believe that with the instantaneous feedback that the internet proudly and brutally delivers, Jeff is realizing that you draw more flies with honey than vinegar. So rather than browbeat everyone into believing as he believes, he's taking the approach of actually showing people why he believes his "just the facts" approach is best. Took me a little while to warm up to his ignoring the artistic aspect of learning music as a teacher, but when he said that artistic strokes for a given genre come from listening to records of that genre, then playing it with confidence, I finally understood why he ignores the artistic aspect. It's not needed to grasp how music works, and the player can be responsible for the art on his/her own.

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Blyss (the guy getting the lesson) is a seriously good bay area player and a great dude.

Blyss rocks! An inspirational player and one of the few people who was cool and was nice enough to subscribe to my yt channel.

[Jaco Taco]

A good video and nice little lesson. The guy does well under pressure.

[Roscoe East]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I wonder if that video was staged a bit. The guy was a very accomplished player as he took just about everything Jeff threw at him.

What I found most interesting about that video was the discrepancy between the stuff he took in stride ("now play it in Db major 7...now play it in Db minor 7 flat 5") and the stuff that really seemed to give him pause ("now play it in 3/4")

...and I think a lot of that has to do with both how we learn chords and harmony, but also the disproportionate emphasis that contemporary pedagogy puts on chords and harmony versus rhythm.

I'm not gonna pretend that I know what goes through Blyss's brain while he's playing, but I know that for me if I were laying down a line like he started with, somewhere in my mind I know what the intervallic relationship of every note is to the tonal center, as well as what quality of chord/harmony I'm outlining when I put all those intervals together.

Whereas I almost never think about where in the measure each one of those notes lands...I just make sure I know where the one is, and what the subdivisions I'm trying to articulate (or infer) are.

(btw, it seemed to me that when Jeff first told him to play in 3/4 he started trying to a compound meter, like a 6/8 or a triplet feel. "Transposing" (sic) a 16th-note funk feel to 3/4 requires that you maintain the same pulse and subdivisions, but simply shorten your phrase lengths by one beat

...although I would've loved to have seen Jeff's expression if Blyss had just played the same line exactly 25% faster!)

[phillybass101]

I never learned well from a task master. I have however learned from a master. IMO a teacher who thinks he is going to put me on the spot or belittle me, especially if I'm paying him has another thing coming. On the flip if the teacher is just totally cool in approach and in what he's trying to convery I can roll with that. I personally have communicated with Blyss via written word and over the phone and he's a very cool cat. Blyss is a bad boy in his own right, and has a music degree. Blyss didn't have to go through any of that. JB has ego problems. He could learn a thing or two from Blyss.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by phillybass101

I never learned well from a task master. I have however learned from a master. IMO a teacher who thinks he is going to put me on the spot or belittle me, especially if I'm paying him has another thing coming. On the flip if the teacher is just totally cool in approach and in what he's trying to convery I can roll with that. I personally have communicated with Blyss via written word and over the phone and he's a very cool cat. Blyss is a bad boy in his own right, and has a music degree. Blyss didn't have to go through any of that. JB has ego problems. He could learn a thing or two from Blyss.

Well, different people learn different ways and that's one of the reasons it's important for a player to find a teacher whose teaching style meshes well with his or her learning style/personality.

[DJ Bebop]

Originally Posted by phillybass101

I never learned well from a task master. I have however learned from a master. IMO a teacher who thinks he is going to put me on the spot or belittle me, especially if I'm paying him has another thing coming. On the flip if the teacher is just totally cool in approach and in what he's trying to convery I can roll with that. I personally have communicated with Blyss via written word and over the phone and he's a very cool cat. Blyss is a bad boy in his own right, and has a music degree. Blyss didn't have to go through any of that. JB has ego problems. He could learn a thing or two from Blyss.

Not to start a ruckus but, I think that was the point of his lesson and no slam on Blyss.

Blyss is a bad boy but even the baddest
including Jeff who has in some of his own videos said that he isn't up on some skills and needed himself to practice.

If you are not working that stuff up or practicing, that stuff won't just appear under you fingers.

Take Blyss for example. No doubt he knows what 3/4 time is and no doubt he knows songs in 3/4 time he can play
because he has played or practice them before but he may not have ever played his own riff in 3/4 time before because he has never practice it in 3/4 time

[Road Hat]

Check out the chap in the background from 2:10-2:13. Looks like Lee to me.

Great lesson BTW, and way to hang in there Ted!

[Roy Vogt]

I may have missed something, but Jeff didn't seem harsh at all. He was taking a really good player and stretching and challenging him out of his comfort zone. I would expect the same thing as a student and I aspire to challenge my student as a teacher.
It was a 4 minute mini lesson, just some things to think about.
Here are some more great Jeff Berlin lessons on the Players School of Music Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PlayersS...?feature=watch

[sonofabass]

Hi all,
Blyss here. Not sure how I missed this thread but let me give you my take on that day. Before I do - thank you to all of you who had some pretty flattering things to say about me. That's nice and I thank you guys.

I met Jeff Berlin and chatted with him briefly before this mini lesson. I didn't feel intimidated because there was no need to. I didn't put him on a pedestal and didn't feel like I was beneath him and he didn't make me feel that way. Later during the day he saw me and stopped to give me a large, sweaty (lol), East Coast hug. He called me by name as though we'd known each other for years. I left NAMM feeling a much greater respect for Jeff.

There was no need for me to feel ashamed or self conscious of anything. Yes, I know the difference between 4/4 and 3/4 and yes, turning a 4/4 funk groove into a 3/4 groove took a second or so of thought. Meh - we all have moments when we just have to stop and think for a second. No prob.

As far his teaching methods and demeanor; I know Jeff can piss people off because he just says what he feels strongly about and makes no apology. That lesson was far far far from brutal. I don't know about anyone else but my definition of "brutal" as it pertains to a lesson would be yelling (usually happens with people who probably aren't truly qualified to teach) , berating, not being prepared, giving mini concerts, etc. This "lesson" wasn't brutal at all and neither was Jeff. He was great. I grew up in New Orleans where people are much like people on the East Coast, they just look you in the eye and give it to you like they feel it. My first bass teacher was Nicholas Payton's dad, Walter - he was the same way in many ways, just straight, no chaser and if you can't take straight up in the shed you probably can't take it on the bandstand. Jeff, he wasn't rude. He wasn't harsh, he wasn't judgmental. Not even a little bit.

The only "issue" (using the term very loosely) that I had was that, before I knew it, I became an ad of sorts for FPBO and the Player's School without really being asked if it was ok. I took some video on my own phone of Mr. Liebman's lesson with Jeff that I wouldn't post without expressly asking if it was ok. I was so caught up in meeting Jeff and just being able to have a quick sit down with him that it just happened so fast. I don't mind the video being up, I would have maybe appreciated a little more communication about it though.

My ego wasn't bruised and there's no way that it should have been because I am confident in my ability as a player and I am aware of and comfortable with the truth that I will always have something to learn, study or work on because there will always be styles or concepts that I am more confident in than others.

Have the best of days everyone!!

Peace,
Ted aka Blyss

[sonofabass]

Originally Posted by sonofabass

Hi all,
Blyss here. Not sure how I missed this thread but let me give you my take on that day. Before I do - thank you to all of you who had some pretty flattering things to say about me. That's nice and I thank you guys.

I met Jeff Berlin and chatted with him briefly before this mini lesson. I didn't feel intimidated because there was no need to. I didn't put him on a pedestal and didn't feel like I was beneath him and he didn't make me feel that way. Later during the day he saw me and stopped to give me a large, sweaty (lol), East Coast hug. He called me by name as though we'd known each other for years. I left NAMM feeling a much greater respect for Jeff.

There was no need for me to feel ashamed or self conscious of anything. Yes, I know the difference between 4/4 and 3/4 and yes, turning a 4/4 funk groove into a 3/4 groove took a second or so of thought. Meh - we all have moments when we just have to stop and think for a second. No prob.

As far his teaching methods and demeanor; I know Jeff can piss people off because he just says what he feels strongly about and makes no apology. That lesson was far far far from brutal. I don't know about anyone else but my definition of "brutal" as it pertains to a lesson would be yelling (usually happens with people who probably aren't truly qualified to teach) , berating, not being prepared, giving mini concerts, etc. This "lesson" wasn't brutal at all and neither was Jeff. He was great. I grew up in New Orleans where people are much like people on the East Coast, they just look you in the eye and give it to you like they feel it. My first bass teacher was Nicholas Payton's dad, Walter - he was the same way in many ways, just straight, no chaser and if you can't take straight up in the shed you probably can't take it on the bandstand. Jeff, he wasn't rude. He wasn't harsh, he wasn't judgmental. Not even a little bit.

The only "issue" (using the term very loosely) that I had was that, before I knew it, I became an ad of sorts for FPBO and the Player's School without really being asked if it was ok. I took some video on my own phone of Mr. Liebman's lesson with Jeff that I wouldn't post without expressly asking if it was ok. I was so caught up in meeting Jeff and just being able to have a quick sit down with him that it just happened so fast. I don't mind the video being up, I would have maybe appreciated a little more communication about it though.

My ego wasn't bruised and there's no way that it should have been because I am confident in my ability as a player and I am aware of and comfortable with the truth that I will always have something to learn, study or work on because there will always be styles or concepts that I am more confident in than others.

Have the best of days everyone!!

Peace,
Ted aka Blyss

Let me clarify - we did talk about it being recorded but, you know, like I said it all just went so fast. Again. No problem at all. I'm glad to have had the experience.

[winegamd]

I can see where people might take it the wrong way, because of the wording Jeff uses, but I think it is just his reputation proceeding him.

When he said Ted "didn't know what he was doing", it was more along the lines of stating he was not sure what to play so was uncomfortable, not that he was incompetent. When asked to do the chord substitutions, there was no problem, and Jeff said good.

He was just trying to show how when we have to think about playing, it becomes troublesome, as demonstrated with the 3/4. Victor Wooten calls people up in clinics all the time and does a similar exercise by having someone play something difficult they are working on, and is never called harsh.

Jeff really knows how to find the weakness in a persons playing and shows them what to work on. He is just blunt about it, but I think that speeds the learning process because you know exactly what he means right then.

[sonofabass]

Originally Posted by winegamd

I can see where people might take it the wrong way, because of the wording Jeff uses, but I think it is just his reputation proceeding him.

When he said Ted "didn't know what he was doing", it was more along the lines of stating he was not sure what to play so was uncomfortable, not that he was incompetent. When asked to do the chord substitutions, there was no problem, and Jeff said good.

He was just trying to show how when we have to think about playing, it becomes troublesome, as demonstrated with the 3/4. Victor Wooten calls people up in clinics all the time and does a similar exercise by having someone play something difficult they are working on, and is never called harsh.

Jeff really knows how to find the weakness in a persons playing and shows them what to work on. He is just blunt about it, but I think that speeds the learning process because you know exactly what he means right then.

He was totally cool. I'll probably take more lessons from him in the future when, like Roy says "time and finances collide" lol.

Can't speak for anyone else but Jeff Berlin, in my experience with him, was a class act.