Jeff Berlin's Dixie vs. Jaco's Donna Lee

[Blackbird]

Anyone have any thoughts on this piece? It's on Jeff Berlin's first solo cd Champion.

Imo, this tune is to Jeff Berlin what Donna Lee is to Jaco. Jeff's piece is actually more demanding and it feels more arranged.

Jeff, while technically brilliant, is about as funky as Geddy Lee (Less, maybe),however, which is where Jaco had the upper hand.

Anyone have any impressions on either tune?

[Dr. Cheese]

Berlin got pretty funky on 5G. A tune he did with Bill Bruford. I actually like Joe Frazier the most of all Berlin compositions. As great as Jeff is, there have been times when he has tried to hard to make a statement. Joe Frazier was case of berlin being himself, and he was great.

[Dr. Cheese]

Here is a link to Berlin with Bruford doing 5G:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSM-jMMuoiU

[Blackbird]

Man, I forgot about 5G! He plays a bit of the intro in his video (To Roddy Piper, no less) so I know what you mean.

Which Bruford album is it on, One of a Kind?

[fretless Bob]

to me Donna lee is Jaco's quintesential piece, i have spent months trying to get it together and im sure il spend many more before i am happy with it. your right about Jaco being groovy, he makes that Charlie Parker head groove hard.


Dave

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Blackbird

Man, I forgot about 5G! He plays a bit of the intro in his video (To Roddy Piper, no less) so I know what you mean.

Which Bruford album is it on, One of a Kind?

It might be One of a Kind but I forgot, it was nearly thirty years ago when I first heard it.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by fretless Bob

to me Donna lee is Jaco's quintesential piece, i have spent months trying to get it together and im sure il spend many more before i am happy with it. your right about Jaco being groovy, he makes that Charlie Parker head groove hard.

I think it's a big part of what puts people off Jaco - so to someone who has never heard or played the tune and knows nothing about Jazz performance protoculs and that Jaco is playing the head, soloing for a few choruses etc. - then it sounds like a load of random notes...played with a fairly dull sound, with no other instruments to add colour...

And it is the first track on his first solo album !

So it is quintessentially Jaco - in that it is a huge risk and also shows a huge amount of self-confidence that some people will 'get' how good it really is!

At the same time though - alienating the vast majority of record buyers, who are into rock/pop with big sound and immediate,catchy tunes...

Of course if you play Jazz and have played this tune - then there is huge depth in Jaco's peformance and the intimate nature of Jaco just laying it all out for you to hear so clearly!

[fretless Bob]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I think it's a big part of what puts people off Jaco - so to soemone who has never heard or played the tune and knows about Jazz performance protoculs and that Jaco is playing the head, soloing for a few choruses etc. - then it sounds like a load of random notes...played with a fairly dull sound, with no other instruments to add colour...

And it is the first track on his first solo album !

So it is quintessentially Jaco - in that it is a huge risk and also shows a huge amount of self-confidence that some people will 'get' how good it really is!

At the same time though - alienating the vast majority of record buyers, who are into rock/pop with big sound and immediate,catchy tunes...

Of course if you play Jazz and have played this tune - then there is huge depth in Jaco's peformance and the intimate nature of Jaco just laying it all out for you to hear so clearly!

i completely agree with you, to be honest when i first heard his album i didnt get it, it was confusing and it made no sense to me and considering that i was introduced to jazz through Jaco it took me a while to get it.

i wonder if that track turned more bassists onto or off of Jaco?


Dave

[Bruce Lindfield]

Going by the huge number and frequency of "I don't get Jaco" threads around here - I would say definitely OFF!

[Baryonyx]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Going by the huge number and frequency of "I don't get Jaco" threads around here - I would say definitely OFF!

Well, it did have a very poppy tune to reward the common listener for making it through the first track!

I've never heard this song "Dixie", but now I think I really should check it out. Comparing what I know of Berlin, like say, putting his Tears in Heaven against Jaco's Donna Lee, well, I'm more with Berlin on that one.

I get flak for it, but I prefer Berlin as a musician. When he is on form, which is most of the time, he trancends and speaks to me a way that Jaco does not. He just seems so much more in control. Even back when Jaco was alive I think Jeff could easily have outplayed him if he had wanted, but that was not his goal. He simply got out there and made beautiful music.

[DWBass]

Wait! Was Jeff 'slapping' at the beginning of that?? The anti-slap Jeff Berlin?

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Wait! Was Jeff 'slapping' at the beginning of that?? The anti-slap Jeff Berlin?

Yep. That was the only song he ever slapped on.

[Blackbird]

Originally Posted by Chris2112

Well, it did have a very poppy tune to reward the common listener for making it through the first track!

It's funny you mention that, as it's sort of a Jaco trademark: "Come on, Come Over" following "Donna Lee" on the first album, "Three Views of a Secret" following "Crisis" on Word of Mouth.

I've never heard this song "Dixie", but now I think I really should check it out. Comparing what I know of Berlin, like say, putting his Tears in Heaven against Jaco's Donna Lee, well, I'm more with Berlin on that one.

Tears In Heaven is a very nice piece, but Dixie is far more impressive. It's criminally ignored, IMO.

For the full impact, get Jeff's Starlicks video. For the most part a waste of time, but for two things: The footage of his duet with Jaco AND his rendition of Dixie.

I get flak for it, but I prefer Berlin as a musician. When he is on form, which is most of the time, he trancends and speaks to me a way that Jaco does not. He just seems so much more in control. Even back when Jaco was alive I think Jeff could easily have outplayed him if he had wanted, but that was not his goal. He simply got out there and made beautiful music.

No flak from this quarter, mate. Imo Jeff's got Jaco beat as far as technique, but Jaco was without a doubt the better composer of the two at the time.

How great would it have been if they collaborated on something like Wooten and Bailey's Bass Extremes...

[Baryonyx]

That would have been out of this world!

I think Jeff can be a bit hit or miss at times. For instance, his "Taking Notes" album is pretty lame apart from Tears in Heaven. The rest of the songs just seem to be a bit aimless and lacking in direction. But when he is on form he makes stuff of beauty.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think he was influenced by Jaco and if I remember had a lot of good things to say about him....?

Although he's quite vociferous about Jaco-clones and obviously doesn't want to sound like him now - which is part of why he doesn't play fretless...?

[Blake Bass]

5G is from Bill Bruford's One of a Kind album. One of my all time favorites. I first heard it when I was a senior in High School about 22 years ago. It changed my entire bass concept. I had heard Jaco but there was just something different and unique about Jeff Berlin's playing that grabbed me. One of a Kind sounds pretty dated now but if you haven't heard it, it is worth a listen.

[Baryonyx]

It does sound a bit dated these days, but it still has some amazing songs on it. Then again, I think you could argue quite well that it doesn't sound dated. The lineup on that record is superb, and thus, they created a fusion masterpiece. Jeff doesn't do a lot of "look at me" stuff but he does a fine job of holding down the low end.

[bassist15]

I dont think you can really compare anyone with Jaco playing Donna Lee . This kinda of put Jaco and bass on the map. No one had palyed so fast and with so much precision before .

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by bassist15

I dont think you can really compare anyone with Jaco playing Donna Lee . This kinda of put Jaco and bass on the map. No one had palyed so fast and with so much precision before .

Err - it's not that fast really and many people at the time were faster - what Jaco brought was Jazz vocabulary and sensibilty to bass guitar!

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Yep. That was the only song he ever slapped on.

And he was damn good at it! Go figure!