...And Justice for All

[Tash]

I've always been ticked about this too. From everything I've heard Jason was basically told to stuff it anytime he mentioned anything related to bass because he wasn't Cliff. So he basically doubled James and let the band do what they wanted with the tracks.

The mix itself is so guitar centric because it was partially produced by Mike Clink (the same guy who gave Appetite for Destruction its signature, ummm, sound). Mid way through the project Metallica brought Flemming Rassmusen back to try and rescue it....but the damage was done (especially the bass tracks).

Also if you think the overdub work on Justice is too much, the black album has TWENTY FOUR tracks for each rythym guitar part

[Thunder_Fingers]

if i had been jason, i wouldnt have been in that band for even a week....

[Tash]

I've always wondered how he lasted as long as he did...maybe he just likes the abuse?

I doubt it was the money, though successful they weren't exactly rolling in it when he joined. As a matter of fact they didn't become "profitable" as a band until the black album, they actually managed to pay back Elektra for the production of AJFA after that went plat.

[the ombudsman]

Originally Posted by Tash

The mix itself is so guitar centric because it was partially produced by Mike Clink (the same guy who gave Appetite for Destruction its signature, ummm, sound). Mid way through the project Metallica brought Flemming Rassmusen back to try and rescue it....but the damage was done (especially the bass tracks).

I don't get it. The bass on Appetite is way up front in the mix...

[Tash]

The guitars on Appetite have way less gain, and I'm pretty sure Slash did a lot less doubling than Hetfield did.

Mike Clink has a real fetish for treble, everything should sound as glassy and bright as possible for him. You can really hear this on Justice, there is no bottom end anywhere in that album, even the kick drum sounds like Lars is tapping on a beer bottle.

When you put tons of high end on a heavily distorted guitar you bring out lots of the upper register harmonics, which sounds pretty cool. When you do it on a bass you don't get quite the same results, and we loose the very thing we are supposed to be doing: providing solid low end to anchor the song.

Its not an issue on Appetite because there just isn't that much guitar, but with Justice Hetfield was trying to get his signature Wall o' Mesa guitar tone. With the low end guts of the bass track leeched out there was very little to set Jason apart.

Had he been allowed to expiriment more as a player Jason probably would have been more prominent, but he was confined to doubling James by the rest of the band members, thus Justice's bass track is lost to the ages.

My old guitarist and I had an inside joke: What do Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and talented, reliable drummers without drug problems listen to when they hang out?

The bass track from And Justice for All

[troll]

Originally Posted by Tash

even the kick drum sounds like Lars is tapping on a beer bottle.

You've obviously never played it on anything with a decent sub?! It's way too thick and loud compared to the mix even at modest sub levels. I often have to turn it down compared to other recordings.

Troll

[peteroberts]

well, there is a ton of 'click' on that kick drum - the kick is very prominent even on a boombox w/small speakers.

Seems like the recording is really midrangey to me. Like I said before, where are the cymbals?

Mike Clink has a real fetish for treble

Well, with a name like 'Clink' what do you expect?

[MAJOR METAL]

Originally Posted by Tash

My old guitarist and I had an inside joke: What do Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and talented, reliable drummers without drug problems listen to when they hang out?

The bass track from And Justice for All

[the ombudsman]

Originally Posted by Tash

The guitars on Appetite have way less gain, and I'm pretty sure Slash did a lot less doubling than Hetfield did.

Mike Clink has a real fetish for treble, everything should sound as glassy and bright as possible for him. You can really hear this on Justice, there is no bottom end anywhere in that album, even the kick drum sounds like Lars is tapping on a beer bottle.

When you put tons of high end on a heavily distorted guitar you bring out lots of the upper register harmonics, which sounds pretty cool. When you do it on a bass you don't get quite the same results, and we loose the very thing we are supposed to be doing: providing solid low end to anchor the song.

Its not an issue on Appetite because there just isn't that much guitar, but with Justice Hetfield was trying to get his signature Wall o' Mesa guitar tone. With the low end guts of the bass track leeched out there was very little to set Jason apart.

Had he been allowed to expiriment more as a player Jason probably would have been more prominent, but he was confined to doubling James by the rest of the band members, thus Justice's bass track is lost to the ages.

Cool, thanks for the explanation!