King Crimson - Discipline

Matt Till · #1 07-08-2005, 03:23 PM

Oh my Lord... this is great. I know some people do consider this album to be their "sell out" point. But once again, it is a case of a band trying something new, and being labeled a sell out. This album really made me fall in love with Tony Levin again... awww with his cute little moustache... and due to Elephant Talk, I will some day own a Chapman stick... I won't play it well at all... but I will own it. It really is the first King Crimson album I've ever heard that doesn't make me want to quit the bass and become a Robert Fripp wannabe. I think because it has more of a standard time feel, Levin gets to groove more and hold together Belew and Fripps dueling guitar insanity.

So is this too "New Wave" for you guys? Thoughts? Frankly, this may shape out to be one of my favorites! But then again, I've said that about ever single one of there CDs when I buy them. (Except Court of the Crimson King).

Muzique Fann · #2 07-08-2005, 03:38 PM

One of my favorites.
IMO the 80's lineup was the best (Levin, Bruford).

Wrong Robot · #3 07-08-2005, 04:25 PM

I liked Ben Strange's cover of the song.
http://www.benjaminstrange.net/music/Discipline.mp3

Jay Terrien · #4 07-08-2005, 04:55 PM

MT,

'Tis a great disc indeed!! Tony's ability to give a song tasteful amounts of space is what makes him so genius.........Yes, his moustache rules too.

I'd like to get some bassists together to start an online petition for Mark Egan to bring back his 70's stache. Lord, that was HOT!

JT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

Oh my Lord... this is great.
So is this too "New Wave" for you guys? Thoughts? Frankly, this may shape out to be one of my favorites! But then again, I've said that about ever single one of there CDs when I buy them. (Except Court of the Crimson King).

Matt Till · #5 07-08-2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrong Robot

I liked Ben Strange's cover of the song.
http://www.benjaminstrange.net/music/Discipline.mp3

Yeah! I forgot about that. Ben posted that right after I bought my first King Crimson disc (Happy with what you have to be happy with EP). And the thing is, I always hate listening to covers before I heard the original (if it's a band I care about), so I kept in the back of my head, "When I hear the original version, I'll check out Ben's so I can say, 'Phhtt, the original is so much better.'"

I was actually going to head over to his website and find it after I logged of TB... but you beat me to it. Download ahoy!

page · #6 07-08-2005, 06:54 PM

I love Discipline, I dont see how they sold out.........i would think that selling out would mean making your music poppier, but that is no where near poppy. Just find a Beyonce Fan and let them listen to Thela Kinjeet.

Matt Till · #7 07-08-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange's cover

Weetalootwahbatkeee gat doo

Ha, I listened to the original and thought, wow... this is way out of Ben's style... why wouldn't he cover something off Power to Believe... but he of course made his version of Discipline his own... very cool.

I miss Ben's odd time signatured goth metal posts sometimes. Sure, I'd Instant Message him or whatever, but... I don't do that.

Regardless, Ben, if you're ever lurking... killer cover.

Passinwind · #8 07-08-2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

So is this too "New Wave" for you guys? Thoughts?

I've been a Crimson fan since the very beginning, and when Discipline came out I was thrilled, as was every Crimson fan I knew at the time. Seeing a date from that tour in a club (Toad's in New Haven) was certainly one of my best concert experiences ever. The '73 tour show I saw was the only other Crimson show I'd put in that league, really. Sellout? No way, it was a breath of fresh air at the time.

To me, most of the attraction is Bruford. I'm not nearly as enamored of the stuff post Levin/Bruford/Belew, for that matter.

Matt Till · #9 07-08-2005, 10:35 PM

Oh Lord yes! Bruford is one of the greatest drummers ever. His playing is so subtle that if you're not listening to him, he sounds pretty standard, but if you focus you realize how much he's doing. And this album is such a great example of his true drum art.

I only ask if it's considered a "sell out" because a lot of KC fans complain that Belew took the edge off KCs music to make more room for his "song based songs." Also, I read a few reviews (inside the album art actually) and there was talk of "Fripp shouldn't call this King Crimson" etc.

Matt Till · #10 07-08-2005, 10:36 PM

I've said Lord twice in this thread: Maybe it should be moved to the Lobby/TPA.

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #11 07-08-2005, 11:03 PM

I think it's my favorite KC album (difficult to say because this band has so many and different eras and approaches). But it's undeniably a top work. I think Adrian Belew is underrated as a singer and I definitely love his voice. Also, he's a great companion for Robert Fripp. And one remarkably thing is how they created such effects like the trumpeting elephant or the gulls with no digital units or sophisticated technology. Not to mention Tony Levin's excellent stick work. In fact, all the three studio albums from that era (Discipline, Beat and Three Of A perfect Pair) are fabulous, but Discipline is my favorite. BTW, have you heard Adrian Belew's version of "Three Of A Perfect Pair" live in Argentina? I think it's awesome.

Passinwind · #12 07-08-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

I only ask if it's considered a "sell out" because a lot of KC fans complain that Belew took the edge off KCs music to make more room for his "song based songs." Also, I read a few reviews (inside the album art actually) and there was talk of "Fripp shouldn't call this King Crimson" etc.

Reviews of Crimson are pretty chancy, I'd say. Especially for a "critic's darling" sort of band. But the stick, the guitar synths,and Belew's awesomely weird guitar sounds all kept the songy-songs from being anywhere near normal in the commercial sense, or so it seemed to me at the time. The '73 show I saw was so far off the map that I just couldn't see any band sustaining a fan base by continuing in that vein. Even I didn't really want to see them continue that way, and I was a card carrying mutant back then. So in that sense, I can see people yelling sellout. It's all relative, I guess. Eh?

Commreman · #13 07-09-2005, 07:19 AM

Discipline was one of my favorites. No way was it a "sellout." Saw them twice on that tour. They were, and are amazing. The back of the red tour t shirts that year had one of my favorite quotes - "Discpline is only a means to an end, never an end in itself."

fulcrum · #14 07-09-2005, 08:34 AM

Fripp was right, the motivation to make the music that would become the Discipline album definitely resulted in King Crimson music.

Think about it: creating music and arrangements by following a couple of seemingly arbitrary rules in order to bring a structural rigor (I was about to say discipline) to the proceedings. No more than two instruments phrasing together at the same time, ever, on that record. If Belew and Fripp were locking in, then Bruford and/or Levin had to find a different phrase that would interlock. Who but Fripp would think of something that onerous and yet liberating?

The Elephant Talk web site probably has links to Fripp's diaries from the period, which lay out those ideas plainly.

Jay Terrien · #15 07-09-2005, 11:03 AM

OMG! Mad props to Strangey......Very solid "cover".....What are you using for the pingy/delayed upper bass voice?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

Yeah! I forgot about that. Ben posted that right after I bought my first King Crimson disc (Happy with what you have to be happy with EP). And the thing is, I always hate listening to covers before I heard the original (if it's a band I care about), so I kept in the back of my head, "When I hear the original version, I'll check out Ben's so I can say, 'Phhtt, the original is so much better.'"

I was actually going to head over to his website and find it after I logged of TB... but you beat me to it. Download ahoy!

Wrong Robot · #16 07-09-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Terrien

OMG! Mad props to Strangey......Very solid "cover".....What are you using for the pingy/delayed upper bass voice?

Ben strange stopped posting at TB, I don't remember the specifics(I was chatting with him around the time he was making this on AIM) But he doesn't have any extended range capabilities, just 2 basses, fretted and fretless tuned in 5ths(CGDA) He does have a ton of effects though and he's smart with how he uses them. So he simulated the warr/stick thing pretty well I'd say.

jenderfazz · #17 07-09-2005, 12:34 PM

Discipline is far from being a "sell-out" album. It's a very complex album and I can imagine many people being unable to listen to it. It sets the pace for the other 80s albums which are also terrific. It's obviously a big transition from Red (my favorite KC album), leaving their "old" prog sound for a complex, new kind of sound. It's hard to explain but I find Red to be more listenable to the common music fan. Discipline is an amazing cd.

Muzique Fann · #18 07-09-2005, 02:58 PM

Belew's David Byrne-ish lyrics and singing style (wasn't he fresh off the Remain in Light tour?) and Billy friggin Bruford are the stars here. I remember reading an awesome interview w/ him and he said he tries to make everything Feel like 4/4 when it could be in any number of other crazy time signatures.

genderblind · #19 07-09-2005, 04:32 PM

KC appeared one night on ABC TV's "Fridays" introduced by Julia Louis- Dreyfus and played Elephant Talk and Thela Hun Gingeet. I completely lost it and couldn't get to sleep that night. This started off my real musical exploration as a twelve-year-old!!!

P. Aaron · #20 07-09-2005, 07:19 PM

I enjoy much King Crimson and right when this record came out, I saw them perform this whole record in a bar called The Second Chance in Ann Arbor. Yeah, it was way cool.

After a few off "Discipline", they went back a bit and did some tunes from "Lark's tongue in Aspic" and Tony played a P-bass for those 'oldies'. They mined a few other albums as well. All in all for $9.00 to be 12 feet away from it all, not a bad night out.