Learning some stuff

JimmyM · #1 03-12-2007, 02:47 AM

Over the past couple weeks, I've set out to record every bass I own from the DI in my SWR through my Audiophile 2496 soundcard. I recorded them with new strings, old strings, one pickup on at a time, etc. I have a ridiculous amount of files so I'm not going to post them all, but I'm going to post a couple. Bear in mind these are all recorded completely flat with no compression or EQ. I've learned a lot of stuff and had a couple beliefs I held shattered.

First thing I learned is that a Jazz bass with the neck pickup soloed really doesn't sound all that far off from a Precision. A little more scooped than a Precision, but close enough for rock and roll:

http://www.bigassbroadcast.com/98Fen...dsnew-neck.mp3
http://www.bigassbroadcast.com/79Fen...ock-rounds.mp3

Second thing I learned is that two basses that sound nothing alike acoustically can sound identical on tape. These two basses were made by a company in Orlando called the Guitar Factory. Both have EMG P/J's and are made out of mahogany. One is a 5-string, the other is a 4-string with a Kahler whammy and a much smaller body. The 4 sounds bright and midrangey unplugged. The 5 sounds deep and dark unplugged. Before I did this recording, I would have sworn they sounded like night and day. You tell me if you hear a difference. I don't:

http://www.bigassbroadcast.com/96Gui...-roundsnew.mp3
http://www.bigassbroadcast.com/91Gui...-roundsnew.mp3

This led me to come to some wholly new conceptions about the role of wood in the sound of a bass. I now tend to believe that the wood's role in the sound of a solidbody is minimized to minor status, and what's important is the note decay. I noticed through all these recordings, through all these different basses with different pickups and wiring schemes, the decay of the note acoustically was identical to the decay of the note amplified without exception. And similarly constructed basses sounded similar regardless of materials used. All my Fenders and copies sounded similar. My two Guitar Factory basses sounded similar despite huge differences. It's because they all had similar note decays, so now I'm starting to believe that it's all down to how the neck is joined to the body in determining the amplified sound. I always believed it was important, but I had no idea how little the types of wood had to do with it, and that gives it much greater importance by comparison.

So as far as I'm concerned, other than your hands, of course, and eliminating amps from the equation, the really important factors in a bass' sound are the strings, the neck/body joint, and pickup placement. Wood has gone down to least important factor in my book. And I still hesitate to give the actual pickup too much importance because EQ and preamping can take care of a lot of variances in pickups, but the placement and size of its magnetic field are what's important. Why do the Jazz neck pickup soloed and the Precision pickup sound similar but not quite? Placement and size of the magnetic field. Makes perfect sense to me.

Anyway, just thought I'd share some of my stuff with you all and see what you thought about it and see if any of you have done something similar.

EDIT: Apologies...my site seems to be down and the links aren't working. I'll look into it later today.

**bassybill** · #2 03-12-2007, 04:09 AM

Jimmy, that's interesting stuff and I'm dying to hear the clips, but the links don't work for me.

Ah - just seen your edit. Okay, I'll check back later.

saxnbass · #3 03-12-2007, 04:23 AM

Nice info. I'm looking forward to those links being fixed.

JimmyM · #4 03-12-2007, 04:03 PM

OK, the links fixed themselves apparently. Must have been maintenance time when I uploaded them. OK, have at it and see what you all think.

JimmyM · #5 03-12-2007, 09:09 PM

Wow, 5 hours later and nothing? I'm talking to the wall! Help me out, I'm dying here!

jenderfazz · #6 03-12-2007, 09:43 PM

Mind you, that P bass just sits so well in the mix! I think though your recordings definitely prove a point, there's the whole other issue of how each bass sounds in a recorded mix, and then in a live mix. Some of these subtle differences can have a big effect... a slight lower mid-emphasis makes the bass felt rather than heard, and a little more treble adds a sparkle that just barely sounds through the guitars. It's a complicated business.

**bassybill** · #7 03-13-2007, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Wow, 5 hours later and nothing? I'm talking to the wall! Help me out, I'm dying here!

Gets real quiet on this forum, don't it?

Jimmy - nice sounding clips, all four. I'm with you on the two GF basses, very similar. Mind you, if they're both mahogany I'm not sure your point about body wood is well demonstrated by these examples. But I do agree that it isn't one of the most drastic influences on tone for an amplified instrument. Who the hell in an audience is going to come up at the end of show and say "Man, that bass sounds great - I mush prefer the alder tone to the ash!"

And you're right about the P and J (solo neck) being not as different as you might expect from reading the Basses forum! The P does sound a little heftier and "thicker", but again, who's going to be able to tell in a mix, especially a live mix.

(Sits back and waits for flames)

Thanks for posting those.

JimmyM · #8 03-13-2007, 03:10 AM

Thanks guys. Yeah, before this, I was one of those "It's all about the wood" guys. I chose mahogany for my custom basses because it sounded so good acoustically. Had I known it didn't matter at all, I would have gotten a fancy schmancy maple cap. But then again, using mahogany saved me a small fortune, so I guess it all evens out.

saxnbass · #9 03-13-2007, 03:36 AM

I checked those out yesterday, but forgot my response. I like those findings, and I agree very much.

hbarcat · #10 03-14-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

...two basses that sound nothing alike acoustically can sound identical on tape. These two basses were made by a company in Orlando called the Guitar Factory. Both have EMG P/J's and are made out of mahogany. One is a 5-string, the other is a 4-string with a Kahler whammy and a much smaller body. The 4 sounds bright and midrangey unplugged. The 5 sounds deep and dark unplugged. Before I did this recording, I would have sworn they sounded like night and day. You tell me if you hear a difference. I don't....

This led me to come to some wholly new conceptions about the role of wood in the sound of a bass. I now tend to believe that the wood's role in the sound of a solidbody is minimized to minor status, and what's important is the note decay. I noticed through all these recordings, through all these different basses with different pickups and wiring schemes, the decay of the note acoustically was identical to the decay of the note amplified without exception. And similarly constructed basses sounded similar regardless of materials used. All my Fenders and copies sounded similar. My two Guitar Factory basses sounded similar despite huge differences. It's because they all had similar note decays, so now I'm starting to believe that it's all down to how the neck is joined to the body in determining the amplified sound. I always believed it was important, but I had no idea how little the types of wood had to do with it, and that gives it much greater importance by comparison.

So as far as I'm concerned, other than your hands, of course, and eliminating amps from the equation, the really important factors in a bass' sound are the strings, the neck/body joint, and pickup placement. Wood has gone down to least important factor in my book. something similar.

This same thing was told to me some years ago by Gene Liberty, a luthier in Northern Illinois whose wisdom I respect greatly. He builds all his instruments neck-thru-body due to the importance of having that connection be as solid as possible, and he states that the specific type of wood used (maple vs mahogany for example) has a minimal effect on tone for most amplified electric instruments using a typical guitar or bass pickup.

I was skeptical about this then, but my own experience has led me to agree, and it seems your experiments give further confirmation.