Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Recordings [BG]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:13 PM
lneal's Avatar
Registered Misanthrope
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lee County, Alabama
Supporting Member
Masterpiece Albums: a Thing of the Past??

Sign in to disble this ad
I just wonder if it is even possible for a band/artist with a mainstream record deal to create an album that is truly a masterpiece anymore? I don't mean indie or other self produced stuff, but mainstream albums on major labels that get airplay. I was just listening to "Aja" (a true masterpiece which took a year to make and that I never get tired of), for the umpteenth time and the thought came into my head. I don't think record companies care anymore about quality material like that, they just want you to churn out the trite, hackneyed mega-hits and stuff the rest of the record with trite, hackneyed junk.

I'm not trying to pick any fights or offend anyone, I just wonder if it's even possible to get lyrics this good on a top 10 hit nowadays:

This is the day
Of the expanding man
That shape is my shade
There where I used to stand
It seems like only yesterday
I gazed through the glass
At ramblers
Wild gamblers
That's all in the past

You call me a fool
You say it's a crazy scheme
This one's for real
I already bought the dream
So useless to ask me why
Throw a kiss and say goodbye
I'll make it this time
I'm ready to cross that fine line

I'll learn to work the saxophone
I'll play just what I feel
Drink Scotch whisky all night long
And die behind the wheel
They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues

My back to the wall
A victim of laughing chance
This is for me
The essence of true romance
Sharing the things we know and love
With those of my kind
Libations
Sensations
That stagger the mind

I crawl like a viper
Through these suburban streets
Make love to these women
Languid and bittersweet
I'll rise when the sun goes down
Cover every game in town
A world of my own
I'll make it my home sweet home

This is the night
Of the expanding the man
I take one last drag
As I approach the stand
I cried when I wrote this song
Sue me if I play too long
This brother is free
I'll be what I want to be

Last edited by lneal : 11-18-2008 at 08:17 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:16 PM
Registered User

Endorsing Artist: Ernie Ball Strings
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Huntington Beach
I guess it would depend on your definition of masterpiece.
__________________
If i had $4,000 i'd probably see if i could rent a walrus. Fetusyolk
  #3  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:18 PM
Registered User

life is good, Dead is better
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham AL
have you ever lisened to PHISH??
they have many a masterpiece
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilser View Post
Anyways, make a long story short I crapped my pants at MIA.
Fender 08' MIA Standard Jazz>
Aguilar Agro>
MXR phase100>
Ashdown MK500>
Aggie DB210:bassist:
  #4  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:21 PM
lneal's Avatar
Registered Misanthrope
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lee County, Alabama
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassnug47 View Post
have you ever lisened to PHISH??
they have many a masterpiece
Please read the post, I said top 40 records that get airplay on the radio nowadays....................thanks for your response though.
  #5  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:22 PM
lneal's Avatar
Registered Misanthrope
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lee County, Alabama
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clank View Post
I guess it would depend on your definition of masterpiece.
I think I defined it pretty well...
  #6  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:27 PM
Registered User

life is good, Dead is better
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham AL
The CD undermind by phish was in the top 40 for a few weeks, and is AMAZING.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilser View Post
Anyways, make a long story short I crapped my pants at MIA.
Fender 08' MIA Standard Jazz>
Aguilar Agro>
MXR phase100>
Ashdown MK500>
Aggie DB210:bassist:
  #7  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:27 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maine/Vermont
NEW YORK—While having drinks with friends at a local bar Monday, Donald Fagen, 60, a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee and cofounder of the multiplatinum-selling American rock band Steely Dan, was once again forced to defend his appreciation for the multiplatinum-selling American rock band Steely Dan.

"Look, I understand. It's an acquired taste," Fagen said after putting his group's 1978 hit "Deacon Blues" on the bar's jukebox. "I wasn't that into it at first, either. But when you really listen to the unbelievable production values and the wry, perfectly crafted lyrics—it's just great art, okay? You should definitely give 'the Dan' a shot."

Fagen went on to cite additional evidence in defense of his admiration for the music, including the disparate jazz, R&B, and blues influences that pervade the band's music, and the ultraclean sound that became the group's hallmark.

"No one attained that level of perfection in the studio," Fagen said. "Do you know how many guitar players tried and failed to nail the solo on the song 'Peg'? Six. Six professional session guitar players. That's commitment to a vision, if you ask me."

"Not to mention almost ruining Michael McDonald's voice just to get the background vocals on that track," Fagen added.

The 'Dans seminal debut comes highly recommended by Fagen

Though Fagen remained effusive about Steely Dan throughout the debate, he did eventually concede that the song "True Companion" from the Heavy Metal soundtrack was "really gay." He was quick to point out, however, that the track was not technically a Steely Dan composition, but rather a Donald Fagen solo project.

"No way you'd be saying this crap if you'd seen Steely Dan play live as many times as I have," Fagen reportedly told his companions after purchasing them a second round of drinks. "Plus [Steely Dan cofounder] Walter Becker is a super nice guy."

In an attempt to enlighten his friends and possibly pique their curiosity to the point where they would accept his standing offer to burn them copies of Steely Dan's 1974 album Pretzel Logic, Fagen went so far as to bring up some of the more esoteric trivia pertaining to the group.

"Everybody knows that Steely Dan is named after a dildo, but were you aware that Chevy Chase played drums when the band was called the Leather Canary?" said Fagen, referring to his formative musical years at Bard College in upstate New York. "Of course, that was way before he went on to Saturday Night Live fame."

Even after his acquaintances roundly dismissed Steely Dan as "pussy music," Fagen vehemently maintained that the band has contributed significantly to the rock and roll genre, and described his and Becker's unorthodox instrumentation choices and song arrangements as "bold."

"God forbid someone take a chance by having more than three chord changes in a song," Fagen said. "You can't just write it all off as '****** jazz fusion' because there are a few horns in the band. And what about 'Bodhisattva' and 'Show Biz Kids' on Countdown To Ecstasy? Don't sit there and tell me that those tunes don't rock."

Though Fagen remains loyal to Steely Dan and more or less has reverence for the band's entire catalog, he said that he is the first to admit the shortcomings of the music.

"No one knows better than I do that this stuff can get extremely self-indulgent," Fagen said. "And, yes, I realize that all the preciousness and apparent awe at its own cleverness can be a little too much to stomach sometimes. Hell, some of Gaucho is even too goddamned smooth for me."

"It's no Dire Straits, I'll give you that," Fagen added.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news..._steely_dan_to
  #8  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:33 PM
lneal's Avatar
Registered Misanthrope
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lee County, Alabama
Supporting Member
That's funny, I like the Onion. Just to be clear, this is not a "Steely Dan is the best thing ever" thread, I just cited an example of something that is generally considered a masterpiece and serves the purpose of illustration.
  #9  
Old 11-19-2008, 01:17 AM
Registered User

Endorsing: Ampeg
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Apopka, FL
Depends on your definition of "masterpiece." For example, I consider the new AC/DC album a masterpiece, and clearly the best album they've done since "Back In Black." I also thought Amy Winehouse's most recent album (coincidentally titled "Back To Black") was a masterpiece. But masterpieces are something that very few new acts are capable of, because more than ever, new acts are signed to major labels based on how much money they're willing to pay to be a major label act and buy off radio stations, and their talent level can be nil as long as they have the cash.
__________________
Ampeg Portaflex Club #1
  #10  
Old 11-19-2008, 05:02 AM
lneal's Avatar
Registered Misanthrope
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lee County, Alabama
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyM View Post
But masterpieces are something that very few new acts are capable of, because more than ever, new acts are signed to major labels based on how much money they're willing to pay to be a major label act and buy off radio stations, and their talent level can be nil as long as they have the cash.
This is what I was getting at. Given the way things work now with major deals is it even possible? Another example of one I consider a masterpiece that fits the other criteria is RHCP's Blood Sugar Sex Magic.
  #11  
Old 11-19-2008, 06:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wichita, KS
Does it really matter what color the drapes were on the titanic?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.O.Bass View Post
People listen to Nickelback?
  #12  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:02 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Marathon Man
Send a message via MSN to Baryonyx
IMO the last pop album to really be a masterpiece was "Graceland" by Paul Simon. And this was carefully crafted and put together in such an expert fashion. You just don't see that kind of thing in popular music these days. For one thing, it had catchy tunes!
  #13  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wichita, KS
For the sake of the conversation,I would say the last high-profile pop culture album to be a "masterpiece" was probably Radiohead's OK Computer.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.O.Bass View Post
People listen to Nickelback?
  #14  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:26 AM
Jazz Ad's Avatar
I took the one less traveled by
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Reims, Champagne, France
GOLD Supporting Member
I think Muse's Black Holes and Revelations is a masterpiece.
  #15  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:27 AM
Joe Gress's Avatar
no really, smokemeth&hailsatan
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pueblo, CO
Send a message via AIM to Joe Gress
Supporting Member
Mastodon-Blood Mountain.
And Tool's Lateralus and Aenima.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.
__________________
TB Resident Hophead

Having a bad day?
  #16  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:29 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto Canada
How can you argue that Green Day's American Idiot is not a master piece?
Grammy award for best album. Numerous singles. Huge sales and some pretty catchy tunes!
May not represent the "bass player" album, but man, you simply can't argue with the success!
fishheadjoe
__________________
Yamaha Bass club member 157 - BB1100s, BB605, Aria owner, Yorkville/Traynor member 62, Roscoe LG3000, Pedulla Rapture
  #17  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:30 AM
john turner's Avatar
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
Forum Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: atlanta ga
Quote:
Originally Posted by baalroo View Post
Does it really matter what color the drapes were on the titanic?
this comment mirrors my sentiments on this topic.

i wish it didn't though .
__________________
Talkbass Forum Administrator Ask me, I'm here to help.

Lord Only on Myspace - 4 New Lord Only Tracks from our 2nd CD
Lord Only - yes. we're back. sorta
versatile residue -12 minute instrumental

I find it elevating and exhilarating to discover that we live in a universe which permits the evolution of molecular machines as intricate and subtle as we. - Carl Sagan
Rock 'n' Roll... It's got nothing to do with journalists, and it hasn't really even got anything to do with musicians, either. - Pete Townsend
  #18  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wichita, KS
Quote:
Originally Posted by john turner View Post
this comment mirrors my sentiments on this topic.

i wish it didn't though .
Personally, I'm happy about it. The stranglehold that the record industry has had for all these years on music is coming apart. It's no longer commercially viable to spend massive amounts of money on products that are readily available for free. This in turn allows much more equal exposure for musicians who just love making great music.

Does this mean the groups at "the top" will be making less money? Sure, it'll be harder and harder to make "good" money as a musician. On the otherhand, the money and recognition that IS available will be spread out amongst the musical masses much more evenly. Allowing much more experimentation and risk taking for all music. Hell, it's already happening to a large extent.


Why give a band like Metallica a million dollar contract to make an album that will be "ok" when you can pick up 10 exciting fresh artists for less who just need a distribution deal for the album they've already made. The general public have always just bought whatever was on the poster at Best Buy anyway, they don't care if it's some middle aged rich guys or some young dudes from Scranton, as long as they are assured that it's "cool."
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.O.Bass View Post
People listen to Nickelback?
  #19  
Old 11-19-2008, 08:53 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York City
Quote:
Originally Posted by lneal View Post
Just to be clear, this is not a "Steely Dan is the best thing ever" thread, I just cited an example of something that is generally considered a masterpiece and serves the purpose of illustration.
Well, but your original post seems to have two points/directions, one of which seems much more open to interpretation: I think it's much easier to agree that the market doesn't support "masterpiece" albums any longer than it is to agree that Steely Dan's aja is a "masterpiece".

And your quoting the entire lyric to "Deacon Blues" -- and going so far as to refer to them as "lyrics this good" (emphasis added) -- will only serve to prove how difficult achieving consensus on that issue is.

I agree completely that the music industry is no longer able to support or encourage albums of depth and daring, albums of rich, provocative, engaging, substantive music. That model is long gone.
  #20  
Old 11-19-2008, 10:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bowling Green, Ohio
Send a message via MSN to bassist 4 life
she lick me like a lollipop

Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Follow TalkBass on Twitter   Visit TalkBass on Facebook  

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:16 PM.




Copyright 2011 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar? Visit our new sister site TalkGuitar.com [beta]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.