On Metal, "Groove", and a Rose by Any Other Name

djwackfriz · #1 10-26-2007, 12:28 PM

Let me state first and foremost to all readers and especially all posters in this thread that this discussion's goal is NEITHER:

1) The gnashing of teeth and shaking of walking-sticks by traditionalists toward those who have a more "progressive" conception of "groove".
2) The nose-thumbing of less mature, less experienced upstarts at those who have been around long enough to have seen more than them.

That said, we all have our own interpretation of what "groove" is, as well we should, and it is not the intention of this thread to redefine it in any way - on the contrary, it is to respond to a perhaps somewhat common stereotype that: Metal music, in any of its forms, lacks at its heart the fundamental quality that embodies "groove" in all of its own permutations, whatever they may be.

It is my hope that, by listing and discussing bands/recordings that demonstrate the presence of "groove" (again, whatever THAT means - "breakdowns", "riffage", etc...) in a metal vein, eyes and ears may be opened and people might be exposed to bands or styles that are not so familiar to them. I have placed this in the "Recordings" section of TB because I expect grounded discussion on specific bands or recordings, rather than abject and theoretical musings that lead nowhere and inflame sensibilities.

I'm looking forward to hearing about some metal that I haven't come across before! No limits on style, just justify your opinion and that's enough for me!

My own first pick, with more to come:

- Meshuggah - specifically "Future Breed Machine", "I", and Fredrik Thordendal's solo project, "Special Defects". By way of absurd time signatures and polyrhythms, the goal becomes less to sustain a groove and, instead, to try to dance around one, the drummer all the while whispering a 4/4. I've been entranced and sucked into the groove on these recordings ever since I first heard them.

Something about super-tight guitar spasms over steady bass and drums really does it for me!

John Wentzien · #2 10-26-2007, 12:43 PM

Sure metal grooves! Phil Lynott was one of the great groovers at the start of it all. Check out anything Thin Lizzy did. I still hear that influence in metal.

bro)))616 · #3 10-26-2007, 12:50 PM

pantera

Gawd · #4 10-26-2007, 12:51 PM

Between The Buried And Me
they have a vast array of styles, and they can groove at any point.

PoundinThunder · #5 10-26-2007, 12:57 PM

any sabbath imo grooves. umm as blood runs black - "my fears have become phobias" is a great song as well

f'nar f'nar · #6 10-29-2007, 01:46 AM

Mudvayne, Ryan really grooves! Fall into Sleep and World So Cold, great grooves.

Opeth I feel also has some great stuff in the way of groove, Martin Mendez has some awesome grooves, especially on deliverance and Ghost Reveries. Ever heard the outro of Reverie/Harlequin Forest? If not I suggest checking it out, I love it!

Karnivool also have some killer grooves for a metal band. Check em!

To a lesser extent Lamb Of God also have some good grooves. So do Disturbed although I'm not a big fan of their music. Check out Breathe, thats got a great groove and bassline.

Bands who I don't think have that great a groove: (disclaimer: I will only mention bands I love and listen to regularly, if you disagree point it out but remember I love em as much as you!)
Metallica- I just think they have always been about speed. Even their load and reload stuff lacked a groove IMO.
Dream Theatre- I love them to death, but it just sometimes gets to the point where they play notes for the sake of playing notes you know? They're new stuff is a bit better tho!
Children of Bodom- Again, love em! But I dunno. I don't 'groove' with it, thats all I can say.
Slipknot- Good, but groove=none-existent.

On a side note, IMO the 'groove' of a song really depends on how well the bassist and drummer combine as a rhythm section, thats what creates the groove and pocketed feel. Thats my two cents anyway.

Gawd · #7 10-31-2007, 05:39 PM

check out Mate.Feed.Kill.Repeat. by slipknot. it was their first album, and quite different from their current sound. there's some groove on it, and some really cool bass lines.

like the songs confessions, and only one

NKUSigEp · #8 10-31-2007, 06:53 PM

Like ya said, everyone's definition of "groove" is different. I wouldn't think of Meshuggah if ya said "groove" just because of how busy the music is. Still a sweet band though!

Opeth seems like a logical choice and I'd throw in Mastodon as well, he's got some sweet lines! Someone mentioned Thin Lizzy - I was jamming out some of that before and definitely agree.

djwackfriz · #9 10-31-2007, 07:06 PM

Nice so far! I agree about Opeth, Lamb of God (though not so much the newest album) and Mastodon, they really lock in... Not too familiar wit Mudvayne and Slipknot, i'll check out those mentioned...

Also -

Unsane! especially their new album Visqueen... crushing grooves. check out Occupationalm Hazard, too

and the Jesus Lizard! specifically anything off Shot

Saetia · #10 10-31-2007, 07:31 PM

Candiria: Older Candiria at least. The most groovey out of all of their ablums IMO would be 300% Density. It has a very polyrhythmic overtone through out the entire album.

Dillenger Escape Plans "Calculating Infinity" for reasons of thick polyrhythmic structuring and algorhythmic mirroring.

The Black Dahlia Murders "Unhallowed" because they are riff machines that just make you want to shake something.

Into the Moats "Means by which the end is justified" for many of the same reasons as Candiria and Dillenger Escape Plan. Solid riffs and polyrhythmic structures... strong jazz and classical influence. There is also a lot of chaos though.

Peace

-Benny

EDIT: Anything by Botch!

djwackfriz · #11 10-31-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saetia

Candiria

Dillenger Escape Plans "Calculating Infinity"

The Black Dahlia Murders "Unhallowed"

Into the Moats "Means by which the end is justified"

Botch!

+1 on all these

I think I heard Into the Moat, did they have some Latin/flamenco type stuff going on now and then? I really dug them, I think.

Saetia · #12 10-31-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwackfriz

+1 on all these

I think I heard Into the Moat, did they have some Latin/flamenco type stuff going on now and then? I really dug them, I think.

Yeah they add that in from time to time as well as lots of jazz and classical infuence into tech metal. Pretty sweet.

Peace

-Benny

CHILDISHGAMBINO · #13 10-31-2007, 08:34 PM

I don't know if I'd call it metal, but Helmet especially the album "Meantime". Sepultura "Roots".

Saetia · #14 10-31-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHILDISHGAMBINO

I don't know if I'd call it metal, but Helmet especially the album "Meantime". Sepultura "Roots".

+1000000 for Helmet!

I remember when I was younger my father was really into Helmet and would blast them. Always been a favorite of mine. Definitely groovey!

Mr. Black · #15 11-01-2007, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHILDISHGAMBINO

I don't know if I'd call it metal, but Helmet especially the album "Meantime". Sepultura "Roots".

"Meantime" was groovy as hell... I'm suprised no one has mentioned Clutch. The S/T and "Elephant Riders" had some serious groove to it....

Howz about Soilent Green?... Alot of grind but when they slow down and get heavy there's lots of groove there....

Alan Vorse · #16 11-01-2007, 02:14 PM

Big +1 for Clutch. I know metal fans get picky about what is metal and what isn't, but here goes:

Prong
Rollins Band
Early Sabbath
Pantera
Faith No More?
White Zombie

rumbler · #17 11-01-2007, 02:27 PM

Not to sound rude but noone ha sposted any "real" metal in imo besides pantera or sabbath. check out some of this if you wanna hear groove. I will list specific songs but these bands all groove

Metallica with trujillo live--HE GROOVES!
Pantera- Anything
Cannibal Corpse- Barbaric Bludgeonings
Testament - 3 Days in Darkness
Manowar - Warriors of the World
Judas Priest - Hellrider
Death - The Philosopher
Iron Maiden - Dream of Mirrors, THE TROOPER! anything!
Dying Fetus - Destroy the Opposition

Man there are so many. Pretty much any metal band that has a good bass player can groove, or bands with guys that aren't just trying to defy they can play faster than god with 20 fingers. Once again there are some specific songs but those bands pretty much groove like hell all the time!!! If you wanna see a list of bass players that groove check out my myspace where I list all my influences

Andrew

El-Bob · #18 11-01-2007, 02:33 PM

any death that Steve Digiorgio played on, and most of tony macalpines stuff from freedom to fly and maximum security had alot of groove imo

Darkstrike · #19 11-01-2007, 02:43 PM

Ever heard of "Groove Metal"?
Pantera etc.

Gawd · #20 11-01-2007, 07:40 PM

I agree with dillinger escape plan.