Miles' free-form fusion albums

[moley]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield

So - there was some really beautiful music created and it did have all sorts of harmonic interest - it just wasn't "chained" to a repeating, simple structure. It developed naturaly as a result of the interaction between the players and didn't necessarily sound "dissonant" in any way!

You're right. It can be that way. Like that piano & bass improvisation Steve Lawson posted a little while back. Music like that can have harmonic interest, and harmonies are developed on the spot. However, Bitches Brew couldn't really be described as 'not dissonant in any way'

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yeah - but as I mentioned, "In a Silent Way" doesn't sound dissonant at all and people do like it and it is just as much free improvisation. I got the complete 3CD boxed set and it is a very relaxing album to listen to and I think it does showcase the keyboard players and McLaughlin as great musicians who can just get up and play great music without need for structure.

I mean, I love the explanation about how Zawinul bought the tune "In a Silent Way" to the sessions with loads of chord changes, although he had explained that it was supposed to be like a folk melody from his home - so Miles said to McLaughlin just to play the tune on guitar with no chords against a pedal open string - and it sounds brilliant - unique!!

I think that out of context, you don't realise that there was no music like this before - so it was all new to Zawinul, Holland, McLaughlin, Corea and this was the basis for what they did in their own bands for the next few decades!! As Ed pointed out.

[moley]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I think that out of context, you don't realise that there was no music like this before - so it was all new to Zawinul, Holland, McLaughlin, Corea and this was the basis for what they did in their own bands for the next few decades!! As Ed pointed out.

Yup. Well, I know intellectually that there was no music like this before, but I don't really appreciate it. It's difficult to, out of context.

[Boplicity]

Originally posted by JimK


Nothing wrong with that at all! I do wish you'd check out Coltrane's A Love Supreme, though.

Well, have I listened to "A Love Supreme." Most of it jangled my nerves. I did love Coltrane's husky voice when he repeats a "a love supreme, a love supreme, a love supreme." Man, I wish he'd have sung more often, something like Louis Armstrong. Of course, Coltrane's fans will think my opinion is heresy.

I did admire Jimmy Garrison's bass solo in "Pursuance/Part 4--Psalm." Also, after the bass solo, the temp slowed for awhile--much, much more to my liking. I guess I just don't like it when hundreds of notes go flying.

Here's the key for me. I want jazz to soothe. I look to heavy metal for energizing. The older I get, the less I like noisy, high speed music. I'm having so much trouble with my ears and tinnitis now, I just can't take too much sound flying at me.

Tell you what I will do, though. To pay Coltrane proper respect, I will listen to this CD many more times and try to "get into" it. Maybe I'll turn down the volume. My opinion could change.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think a lot of people look to things like Smooth Jazz for soothing, "Easy Listening", but I don't think real mainstream Jazz has ever been about that; but rather pushing forward and doing something different and upsetting expectations - syncopating.

So - the kind of modal Jazz that Miles was playing in "Kind of Blue" was realy only a reaction to Bebop - so it was like everybody was playing as fast as they could, with as many chord/key changes and substitutions to the bar as the could get, with as many notes - so of course Miles did the opposite!!

I remember annoying a telesales/marketing person by saying that I liked Jazz but not "Easy Listening" - so he was saying - take this survey and you can get some free albums (yeah right!!). So anyway - he said what would be your preferred choice for free CDs and I said Jazz - so he said - right, "Easy Listening" and I said NO - I don't want any Easy Listening. So he said that it was the same category - so I said well no thanks then and put the phone down.

He rang back and I just said I was not interested in a company that organised things like that!

[moley]

Heh, calling Jazz the same as Easy Listening. Now that is blasphemy

[JimK]

Originally posted by moley
I'm into harmony...

Whoa, Nellie!
In yer 1st post you mentioned how "30 minute free form jams don't do it for you like 'So What' does"(or sumthin' like that).
"So What" is not about as much harmony(stacked notes) as it is about linear motion & modal playing.
Do you see where I'm going with this?!

[JimK]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Yeah - but as I mentioned, "In a Silent Way" doesn't sound dissonant at all and people do like it and it is just as much free improvisation.

...and don't discount Teo Macero's contribution to IASW, BB, & On The Corner.
He spliced/edited/cut/pasted many 'miles' of tape to achieve the end result.

[moley]

Originally posted by JimK


Whoa, Nellie!
In yer 1st post you mentioned how "30 minute free form jams don't do it for you like 'So What' does"(or sumthin' like that).
"So What" is not about as much harmony(stacked notes) as it is about linear motion & modal playing.
Do you see where I'm going with this?!

Yeah. Ya got me on that one When I said I was into harmony, I don't mean I only like things with substantial harmonic content. I do appreciate the linear motion and use of modes on tunes like So What. But it is still in the context of a more traditional Jazz setting - accompanying the soloist, rather than everyone-solos-at-once. Whereas Bitches Brew kinda doesn't have either of those things to lock onto.

[JimK]

Don't do like me...that is, don't attempt to 'pigeon-hole' stuff like Bitches Brew.
I used to sit back & say to myself, "This ain't Jazz". I would get hung up on my personal "Jazz" ideal & dismiss a lotta stuff(this same stuff is what I'm getting back to now after blowing it off years back!).
Let it go.

[moley]

Heh, ok. Cool.

[Boplicity]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I think a lot of people look to things like Smooth Jazz for soothing, "Easy Listening", but I don't think real mainstream Jazz has ever been about that; but rather pushing forward and doing something different and upsetting expectations - syncopating.

I think "Kind of Blue" is very soothing. That's why I like it. I also consider it to be jazz. Jazz doesn't have to be "smooth jazz" to be soothing and mellow. But I have to carefully pick and choose among jazz Cds to find ones that are soothing. There's nothing like a jazz trio, drums, piano, bass, to play soothing jazz or maybe accompany a smokey-voiced jazz singer.

[Bruce Lindfield]

But my point about this was in the other part of my post that you didn't copy :

"So - the kind of modal Jazz that Miles was playing in "Kind of Blue" was realy only a reaction to Bebop - so it was like everybody was playing as fast as they could, with as many chord/key changes and substitutions to the bar as the could get, with as many notes - so of course Miles did the opposite!! "


So the KoB period was just Miles upsetting people's expectations - being "avant garde" as frenetic, complex music was expected at the time!!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by moley


I'll add that to the books-to-get list then However, Mark Levine's Jazz Theory Book (which Amazon.co.uk have now decided they don't have available )

I'm in London today and I passed Rod Argent's Music shop on the way into the office and "The Jazz Theory Book" was in pride of place in the window!

[moley]

Rub it in, why don't you?

How much are they selling it for down there?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Up here? Didn't look - I bought a Coltrane PlayAlong - you could try downloading the Jazzwise Direct catalogue :

http://www.jazzwise.com/dir/direct.htm

That'll probably shake up your list!!