Motown era drummers recording question

[giacomini]

I was completing my Jamerson collection when I noticed something and a couple questions came to my mind:

1. Who was (were) the drummer(s) in the tracks that Jamerson recorded?

2. Like Jamerson, that was featured in so many Motown tracks, did they have a drummer in that fashion?

I'm asking this because in my Jamerson compilation I hear in about 80-90% of the tracks the same snare drumroll (if you know what I mean!). Then after saying this, another question came up:

If several different drummers recorded the Motown tracks that Jamerson played on, did all of them know only 1 kind of intro/fill?

(posted this here because it is recordings related, but I'm not sure if this belongs to miscellaneous...)

[PhiDeck]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funk_Brothers

The principal drummers were:
- William "Benny" Benjamin (1925-1969)
- Richard "Pistol" Allen (1932-2002)
- Uriel Jones (1934-2009)

If you haven't already watched the documentary video "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" (2002), do so. Pistol and Uriel appear in it, and talk about the difference in their playing styles (including Benny's).
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00008J2HC

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by PhiDeck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funk_Brothers

The principal drummers were:
- William "Benny" Benjamin (1925-1969)
- Richard "Pistol" Allen (1932-2002)
- Uriel Jones (1934-2009)

If you haven't already watched the documentary video "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" (2002), do so. Pistol and Uriel appear in it, and talk about the difference in their playing styles (including Benny's).
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00008J2HC

Yes, I need to watch "Standing in the Shadows of Motown"! I'm telling myself to do so a long time, but I still have to find it...

[Lincoln]

Originally Posted by giacomini

Yes, I need to watch "Standing in the Shadows of Motown"! I'm telling myself to do so a long time, but I still have to find it...

This video should be required viewing for every musician...period.

[One Drop]

Indeed.

There is even a scene where one of the Funk Bros. describes how each drummer had his own intro, making it easy to tell who played the main part on each track. He plays each one and says who it belonged to.

A lot of the songs had two drummers IIRC, and I think always 2 drummers live.

[floundah]

Originally Posted by PhiDeck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funk_Brothers

The principal drummers were:
- William "Benny" Benjamin (1925-1969)
- Richard "Pistol" Allen (1932-2002)
- Uriel Jones (1934-2009)

If you haven't already watched the documentary video "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" (2002), do so. Pistol and Uriel appear in it, and talk about the difference in their playing styles (including Benny's).
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00008J2HC

or better yet, buy the book that inspired the movie.
http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shado...5613903&sr=1-4

[cavemusic]

Originally Posted by floundah

or better yet, buy the book that inspired the movie.
http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shado...5613903&sr=1-4

Get both! If you're a motown fan/bass player they are both required reading/viewing!

[pedro]

Nothing to add except what a pleasure it must have been to have played with such outstanding drummers.

[giacomini]

Thanks guys, I'll get the book @ amazon! Fortunately our government is supporting education ( ) and they don't charge import taxes on books!

[JimK]

Originally Posted by One Drop

A lot of the songs had two drummers IIRC, and I think always 2 drummers live.

I recently read Dennis Coffey's book...he has some great stuff in there about Motown.
Anyway, yeah...he mentions 2 drummers were used for many tracks & how it drove cover band drummers nuts because they were thinking 1 guy was doing the part.
http://www.amazon.com/Guitars-Motown...5695370&sr=1-1

[One Drop]

Originally Posted by JimK

I recently read Dennis Coffey's book...he has some great stuff in there about Motown.
Anyway, yeah...he mentions 2 drummers were used for many tracks & how it drove cover band drummers nuts because they were thinking 1 guy was doing the part.
http://www.amazon.com/Guitars-Motown...5695370&sr=1-1

I've got to get that book, thanks for the reminder.

I wonder how many people got huge chops trying to cop recordings that they didn't know were overdubbed (e.g. Hendrix, etc)?

[JimK]

One classic story I recall reading was from a Joe Walsh interview (from Guitar Player?). Walsh was retelling how long it took him to shed George Harrison's guitar parts/solo on "And Your Bird Can Sing". Eventually, he met up with Harrison & wanted to show him to see if it was "correct". Harrison then admitted the solo was doubletracked.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by JimK

One classic story I recall reading was from a Joe Walsh interview (from Guitar Player?). Walsh was retelling how long it took him to shed George Harrison's guitar parts/solo on "And Your Bird Can Sing". Eventually, he met up with Harrison & wanted to show him to see if it was "correct". Harrison then admitted the solo was doubletracked.

I read something similar. LOL!!

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by One Drop

A lot of the songs had two drummers IIRC, and I think always 2 drummers live.

Yeah, I though too it was only one drummer! I would never think of 2 drummers in those recordings, because tape tracks were scarce back then...

[recnsci]

Originally Posted by giacomini

Yeah, I though too it was only one drummer! I would never think of 2 drummers in those recordings, because tape tracks were scarce back then...

No tape tracks were harmed in process

(this is 'bout Stax not Motown, but it was probably same)
"Hey,

Firstly, I mixed many of those tracks, but did not track most of them. But I did track with Al Jackson, Jr. many times on other stuff (Al was of course the "house" drummer at Stax, but was also the drummer for the "biggest" stuff from Hi, such as Al Green), and with his cohort on the Al Green recordings, Howard Grimes.

The way they got "that sound" was that the two of them played together, sitting right next to each other in the studio. Al was on his (Rogers, usually) kit, and Howard was on congas. Howard would watch (and feel, of course), and play one particular deep-ish conga on each snare hit. Most people think it is some kind of tom, played by one person, but it isn't. The other accented (syncopated grace note type) hits from the conga helped to provide that "loping groove" they had.

Al was the original Mr Sparse, but Mr. Perfect, drummer. He had an absolutely amazing feel, but at the same time, had a rock solid built-in clock. No need for a click track ever with him. In fact I sometimes called him "The Human Metronome." He would rarely play anything more than bass drum, snare, and hat. Toms were occasional, only when needed, and other cymbals were again just when required, not because "he had them there."

Willie Mitchell (Producer), along with Al Jackson, was significantly responsible for the overall "jazziness" of the grooves...both were long-time players in jazz and big bands.

Mixing the Al Green recordings was often a bit of a (welcome) challenge, because the technical setup at Hi was neither the most modern, nor the best maintained, so I did whatever I could to try to bring the sounds up to a more full-fidelity arena. But I really like how it all came out, because it all somehow seems to blend the very funky with the very technical.

The whole secret to the wonderful records though was the great songs played and sung by the great performers, with Willie Mitchell guiding things into the grooviest place possible.

Willie taught me an awful lot about getting things to feel and groove right when mixing. I will be forever grateful to him for that.

Hope that answers a bit of your questions satisfactorily."

Here

[giacomini]

^-------^--------^

Thanks, it explains a lot (at least for me)!

[One Drop]

Originally Posted by recnsci

No tape tracks were harmed in process

(this is 'bout Stax not Motown, but it was probably same)
"Hey,

Firstly, I mixed many of those tracks, but did not track most of them. But I did track with Al Jackson, Jr. many times on other stuff (Al was of course the "house" drummer at Stax, but was also the drummer for the "biggest" stuff from Hi, such as Al Green), and with his cohort on the Al Green recordings, Howard Grimes.

The way they got "that sound" was that the two of them played together, sitting right next to each other in the studio. Al was on his (Rogers, usually) kit, and Howard was on congas. Howard would watch (and feel, of course), and play one particular deep-ish conga on each snare hit. Most people think it is some kind of tom, played by one person, but it isn't. The other accented (syncopated grace note type) hits from the conga helped to provide that "loping groove" they had.

Al was the original Mr Sparse, but Mr. Perfect, drummer. He had an absolutely amazing feel, but at the same time, had a rock solid built-in clock. No need for a click track ever with him. In fact I sometimes called him "The Human Metronome." He would rarely play anything more than bass drum, snare, and hat. Toms were occasional, only when needed, and other cymbals were again just when required, not because "he had them there."

Willie Mitchell (Producer), along with Al Jackson, was significantly responsible for the overall "jazziness" of the grooves...both were long-time players in jazz and big bands.

Mixing the Al Green recordings was often a bit of a (welcome) challenge, because the technical setup at Hi was neither the most modern, nor the best maintained, so I did whatever I could to try to bring the sounds up to a more full-fidelity arena. But I really like how it all came out, because it all somehow seems to blend the very funky with the very technical.

The whole secret to the wonderful records though was the great songs played and sung by the great performers, with Willie Mitchell guiding things into the grooviest place possible.

Willie taught me an awful lot about getting things to feel and groove right when mixing. I will be forever grateful to him for that.

Hope that answers a bit of your questions satisfactorily."

Here

Those Willie Mitchell/Al Green productions are unsurpassed, just a golden run of recordings where everything works beautifully, and all in the service of some of the greatest music ever recorded. Nice link!