New track mixed by drummer- not happy!

Foxworthy925 · #1 04-07-2008, 05:38 PM

So my band and I have been working on some new recordings for a while. I recorded the bass tracks at my house, and the drummer just brought over a flash drive and picked 'em up yesterday. It's still only a demo, but I'm not happy with the results.

When I listen to the song, I don't hear bass. All I hear is boom boom blah mud. Yah, it's like he cut out absolutely all, and I mean ALL my mids, and boosted the bass to hell. I play with a very recognizable style- that finger slap death metal tone. It seems like he tried his hardest to get rid of that! You can't even tell I'm playing anything at all. All it is is a bunch of booming and thudding you hear!

Here's the way I see it. The guitar tracks don't have the best tone in the world, and they were all saying how adding bass would fill everything out. It seems like he's trying to use bass to fill in all the shortcomings of the guitars. I might as well be just using a pick- he killed every aspect of what makes my tone ME!

I talked to him a bit about it, and I will get more input when we go back to his place to edit it. Hopefully I can get him to see the light (of bass not actually HAVING to be primarily in the subwoofer range).

Please I need your help. Tell some knowledge that I should pass on to him to help get a good dm tone that I'm going for. My uneq'ed tone was just so great- it was a great example of that cutting finger slap tone that I love so much. Now this.

The song I'm talking about is "The Prophecy". That's the only recording up that I'm actually playing on. All the other recordings are old and don't have me.

www.myspace.com/emortus

Please help

Foxworthy925 · #2 04-07-2008, 05:42 PM

Really, let me ask my question again. I need to know what to say to persuade him to make it better. I know that it's just a matter of eqing it better, since my direct tone was just beautiful compared to this. He wants to try some cab modeling because I think he doesn't want to try to eq it to get rid of any of that muddy bass since the recording "sounds better with hella deep bass". What should I do?

Stromrider · #3 04-07-2008, 05:42 PM

One of black metal's trademarks is little to no bass volume. Their are exceptions of course, like your low E should still be their, and the kick drum still has to have kick but for the most part its all midrange.

Also, i'm listening to it on good monitoring headphones, and it sounds like he just boosted the hell out of 80-120hz. Not low bass frequencies.

Foxworthy925 · #4 04-07-2008, 05:47 PM

80-120 is tons low in my book. I usually boost around 800 or so. Thanks for the reply.

DWBass · #5 04-07-2008, 05:59 PM

One of the things I don't understand with that genre. Why do bassists work so hard at their craft to be totally undermixed and barely heard??!!

Back to the song..........That's a horrible mix! Even the vocals are undermixed! You may want to have someone from the outside, with discerning ears, mix that.

Foxworthy925 · #6 04-07-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBass

One of the things I don't understand with that genre. Why do bassists work so hard at their craft to be totally undermixed and barely heard??!!

Back to the song..........That's a horrible mix! Even the vocals are undermixed! You may want to have someone from the outside, with discerning ears, mix that.

Did I ask to be under mixed and barely heard? Why would I? I'm asking you what I should do to persuade him to make me sound how it's supposed to- not like i'm trying to play reggae.

Ya, tell me about it. That option has crossed my mind before. How would we go about finding an outside source to mix and master it? Who would we go to?

Thanks for the reply

ProgRapture · #7 04-07-2008, 06:07 PM

Hmmm...typical when only one member does the mixing. I hear no bass at all, and I prefer my metal to have some meat to it, and I hear plenty (too much) drums. I've had that problem before. It could definitely use more bass (your instrument, not the frequencies).

Foxworthy925 · #8 04-07-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProgRapture

Hmmm...typical when only one member does the mixing. I hear no bass at all, and I prefer my metal to have some meat to it, and I hear plenty (too much) drums. I've had that problem before. It could definitely use more bass (your instrument, not the frequencies).

Well, atleast one place where you should be able to get some of it is the part from 1:13-1:35. I'm following exactly what the guitars are doing, but tapping it out.

When we were talking about this last week before any bass tracks, I was saying how the guitars need more bass. They weren't heavy or meaty enough. His (summarized) reply was basically that adding the bass track will fix this. HA! I have nothing more to say...

You said too much drums: do you mean too much drums all together, or just too much snare or something in particular?
Thanks

DWBass · #9 04-07-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxworthy925

Did I ask to be under mixed and barely heard? Why would I? I'm asking you what I should do to persuade him to make me sound how it's supposed to- not like i'm trying to play reggae.

I'm not saying 'you're asking' to be undermixed. I'm just saying I don't get the mixing process (by most likely non bassists). Why even have a bass player if you don't want to hear him? I'm also disclaiming any real knowledge of the genre but my son listens to a ton of it so I HEAR it all the time.

The only thing I can think of is ask him why he mixed the way he did. Tell him you don't dig it. I know I'd be pissed and I would fight to have 'my sound' mixed properly. In fact I did have that problem with my last band's demo. The guitard did the mixing and all you could hear was HIM! I said 'aww hell no'! And this was an R&B band. The bass is a major part of the R&B sound and he had me almost non existent! WTH? Everyone should be in on the mixing process.

As for an outside source.......check your local Yellow Pages. Any 'pro' studios in town with experience recording/mastering signed bands?

Mesa · #10 04-07-2008, 08:07 PM

My very amateur opinion: way too much snare.

jollygiantchris · #11 04-07-2008, 09:38 PM

As far as bass being mixed in DM have your drummer read this thread it will explain EQing bass in DM to him and explain to him why doing that will make his kick drum sound bad.

Demystifying Metal styles, how to make fingerstyle playing heard in Metal

Foxworthy925 · #12 04-07-2008, 10:21 PM

Good call with the demystifying dm thread. I'll definitely show him that.

I also agree that there's too much snare.

marcray · #13 04-07-2008, 10:40 PM

be honest now... is it the drummers band? Is he a forming member? Is he the one with the most recording/mixing gear? etc etc...

2 ways to go about this... first one is the one I would not recommend, and that one would be to go in their and say, hey, you screwed up my tone. He doesn't care. Being in a real band is all about compromise and coming together as a unit. He's made his position clear, so butting heads about your individual tone won't make a difference to him.

The 2nd way is what I would recommend. KNock his ego. Find a demo of a band you all respect and that sounds way better than yours in all respects, drums, bass, guitars and voc. Play it next to your demo and say, brother, if we're gonna compete it has to sound better than this band. Otherwise, there's no point.

First of all, it's true, secondly it has a slight chance of opening his eyes to the big picture. If it doesn't work, then find another band or form your own.

TheInsane · #14 04-07-2008, 11:26 PM

I know what you mean and while I dont know all the technical stuff on how to bring the bass up in a mix in a good way I do know communication is the key. My band recently recorded our second full length cd and when I got the first few mixes the bass was good on two tracks, awesome on one and way to low in the mix on the rest. I just told out guitarist (who's "in charge") and when I heard the final mixes they sound pretty darn good and the bass is audible throughout (and not just as "background sound" which is quite common in metal music). I basically told him what I wanted, he agreed and they did their best to satisfy my wishes and I believe the record will be better because of it.

Foxworthy925 · #15 04-07-2008, 11:27 PM

marcray:
To answer your first questions: No, it's not his band. YES he was a forming member, and YES he is the one with the most recording/mixing gear.

Excellent advice with the comparison idea. I'll take a try with that.

TheInsane:
What kind of music and what band?

Thanks

On a side note, how much room for improvement do you all think there is for these recordings? The drums were miced with a bunch of (I think) CAD mics. Both guitars are direct and were recorded with some distortion that came with the line 6 interface= no different options for guitar distortions, only eq options. I never was that thrilled with the guitar tone (I kept thinking too much fuzz) but I don't know how much it can be improved. The bass is direct, of course. Will a good mixing and mastering really make all the difference, or are we just driving down a dead end road with all this, because we won't be able to improve the overall recording?

worker201 · #16 04-07-2008, 11:55 PM

+1 to the suggestion of comparing your mix to an inspirational album in an open and communicative way. A drummer is obviously going to kick the drums up a few too many notches. And guitars are always going to be way too far out in front. But like you said before, this ain't reggae. Don't expect this to sound like a bass solo with a backup band, because that's not best for the music either. Bands that spend thousands of dollars on engineers and producers do so because they want the recording to be balanced in a certain way. Find an album you all think sounds great, take it to a pro studio, and ask for an estimate.

XtreO · #17 04-08-2008, 08:25 AM

Your drummer made the most fundamental mistake when mixing metal; cutting bass mid and boosting bass (ie lowrange bass frequency). Tell him to leave lowrange to guitar, lowest for kickdrum, mid for bass and treb for guitars also. Assuming your guitarists does not crank anything, this should be fine. That'll make a much less muddy sound and make the bass more audible. Of course not only this is needed, the volume of each instrument needs to be balanced more. But my suggestions should help making it much less muddy.

Try listening to bands like Immortal, Enslaved, Burzum, Mayhem, Satyricon and Dimmu Borgir. They are all some variation of Black Metal - and their mixing on most albums are great.

TheInsane · #18 04-08-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxworthy925

TheInsane:
What kind of music and what band?

Melodic death metal. We are called Canopy and you can visit our wesite at http://www.entercanopy.com or at http://www.myspace.com/canopy Nothing from the new cd is up yet though.

steve66 · #19 04-08-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheInsane

Melodic death metal. We are called Canopy and you can visit our wesite at http://www.entercanopy.com or at http://www.myspace.com/canopy Nothing from the new cd is up yet though.

Your bass is fine in the mix. you probably have a better drummer

fleabee · #20 04-09-2008, 12:21 PM

Maybe its my computer speakers but I dont hear ANY bass at all. I think before you start a band it should be discussed how things will be mixed when recording. Naturally everyone thinks their craft should stand out but there at least has to be some balance.