No bass on Metallica's "...And Justice For All"

**Kelly Lee** · #1 09-24-2005, 12:43 AM

***? I read this on another forum:

Quote:

BTW: Check it out - On "...And justice for all" if you listen carefully ,you will notice that something is lacking .There is no bass .They had already written most of the songs and screwed Jason in the recording process ,hence no bass tracks were recorded for the album and it remained as so. The only "...And justice for all" songs with bass tracks are live recordings.

I was wondering if I have been mistaken all these years in believing there were bass tracks on this album? I know Jason had come in to replace Cliff but did he really not play at all on it?

Ian Perge · #2 09-24-2005, 02:20 AM

I think it's easy enough to disprove this via straight facts: MOP was released February 21st, 1986, and Cliff's death was on September 27th, 1986. Between those two dates they opened up for Ozzy and started their first headlining tour in Europe (where the bus accident happened.) I think it's improbable that they could write the majority of the album in only seven months while on tour.

As for the lack of bass on AJFA, I refuse to believe that the band, admittedly while hazing Jason a huge amount, would sacrifice the production of the album simply out of spite, or that producer Flemming Rasmussen would let them do so. I believe what's said to have happened to be true: that the album was mixed to sound as good on cheap car stereos (as their fanbase wasn't nearly as large or as "moneyed" as they would become later in Metallica's career) as it would on a high-end system, and that the low-end suffered because of this decision. Also, the general sound of thrash production at that time period was lacking bass as well - AJFA simply took it a step or two farther.

There's also the fact that in post-Metallica interviews Jason has been nothing but forthcoming about his "status" in Metallica, and that he most likely would have stated this "on the record" in an interview, or more likely the "Some Kind Of Monster" documentary.

f'nar f'nar · #3 09-24-2005, 02:41 AM

this has been done to death but here we go: There IS bass. Its just turned way down. But there is defiantely bass.

cowsgomoo · #4 09-24-2005, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Lee

***? I read this on another forum:

I was wondering if I have been mistaken all these years in believing there were bass tracks on this album? I know Jason had come in to replace Cliff but did he really not play at all on it?

there's bass... it can be heard in the quiet bits in 'One' definitely.. but it's very very low

ihixulu · #5 09-24-2005, 06:31 AM

There is bass. There are no mids.

Alan Vorse · #6 09-24-2005, 08:51 AM

Yeah, I read that the rhythm guitar and bass both had scooped mids, and that meant that they were eating up the same frequncies. When they tried to bring the bass up in the mix, it "overpowered " the guitar, so they had to leave it down in the mix. Even though that's the explanation he gave in an old Bass Player, it makes me say COME ON!

**MAJOR METAL** · #7 09-24-2005, 01:35 PM

Jason recorded all the parts for it so its in their just not mixed right.

**Kelly Lee** · #8 09-24-2005, 04:32 PM

Thanks guys. I thought so and I even put the album on last night to make sure. Yes, there is definately bass on there. The reason I posted the question was I wanted to make sure I was correct before I put him straight.

Tash · #9 09-24-2005, 06:48 PM

You can hear bass in several places on the album provided you have a decent stero and are not scooping the midrange on your EQ. Blackened, AJFA and Harvester of Sorrow all have parts where the bass can be heard reasonably clearly under the guitars.

Joe Garage · #10 09-25-2005, 03:55 AM

I think to production serves the songs. This album has most aggressive and trashy songs Metallica ever recorded, and a very commercial production like they have on the Black album would not fit the songs that well.

You get to hear a lot of Jason on his first recording with the band called “Garage Days” where the bass is very upfront.

Petary791 · #11 09-25-2005, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f'nar f'nar

this has been done to death but here we go: There IS bass. Its just turned way down. But there is defiantely bass.

There you go.

And the song "To Live is To Die" was written by Cliff.

The Golden Boy · #12 09-25-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarred2112

I believe what's said to have happened to be true: that the album was mixed to sound as good on cheap car stereos (as their fanbase wasn't nearly as large or as "moneyed" as they would become later in Metallica's career) as it would on a high-end system, and that the low-end suffered because of this decision.

That's BS. If you're going to EQ stuff to sound decent on a car stereo or boom box, you want that bass presence. Every time I've done mixes, you run what you think would be a nice sounding mix out to the car and have a cheap boom box along.

AJFA is just excessively poorly mixed.

Audiophage · #13 09-26-2005, 05:53 PM

The bass is mixed horribly on the retail version of that album, but it is there if you listen hard enough. Jason definetly had a part in the album seeing that he had writing credits for "Blackened".

I have a version of "...Justice" that has the bass mixed much better. Its pretty cool, but I don't know exactly how it was made or if its really is Jason's playing.

MikeyFingers · #14 09-26-2005, 05:55 PM

There is definately bass on that album. I'm pretty positive you can hear it clearly in one of the songs, don't remember which one. I think it's Shortest Straw or Harvestor of Sorrow. I remember being able to hear it clearly in one of them.

Audiophage · #15 09-26-2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyFingers

There is definately bass on that album. I'm pretty positive you can hear it clearly in one of the songs, don't remember which one. I think it's Shortest Straw or Harvestor of Sorrow. I remember being able to hear it clearly in one of them.

The intro of "Blackened" has some pretty audible bass.

**MAJOR METAL** · #16 09-26-2005, 06:05 PM

Jason did a great Job playing One live, I particularly liked his tone on that song when he was playing with the Sadowskys.

neilslorance · #17 09-29-2005, 04:11 PM

did james or lars have anything to do with the mixing of it?
sometimes its a bad idea to let egos get into the mixing, it always seems to be the bass that dissapears.
its happened to me a few times.
has anyone had this with their own band?
its a right bummer.

origami · #18 09-30-2005, 09:21 AM

http://www.jasonizer.com/justice.html listen to this. quite cool.

and yes.. i think ego and hazing had a lot to do with the "justice mix".

dannoman · #19 09-30-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophage

I have a version of "...Justice" that has the bass mixed much better. Its pretty cool, but I don't know exactly how it was made or if its really is Jason's playing.

I believe that it is done by our fellow TB poster Lokire.... Correct me if i'm wrong....

jnprather · #20 09-30-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by origami

http://www.jasonizer.com/justice.html listen to this. quite cool.

and yes.. i think ego and hazing had a lot to do with the "justice mix".

Hahah... i'm listening to the title track, this is really cool.