Progressive Death Metal

[DuraMorte]

This is the first song off my band's upcoming album.
It's titled "Perpetual Midnight".
Recorded, mixed and produced by yours truly.
All comments and critiques welcome!


EDIT: Newest mix can be found here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/508731/Perpe...20Rev%2010.mp3

[IconBasser]

sounds more like metalcore to me. Not bad though.

[DuraMorte]

Lol, if you beard some of our other songs you would understand.
We have one 7-minute song with a long jazzy intro, and a four-part, 14-minute opus that puts us squarely into progressive territory.
How is the mix? Does anything sound strange or unbalanced to you?

[IconBasser]

I'd like to hear them.

the mix seems a little high on the treble to me.

[IncX]

no offense... since you posted in a public forum, i guess it goes that you are ready to accept feedback both good and bad.

anyway, i think the track sounds like something Lamb of God would do. i wont even consider it death metal (sorry)

i was thinking more in the line of this:

YouTube - ‪OBSCURA - "The Anticosmic Overload"‬‏

it's Obscura... fretless thumb drool

[DuraMorte]

Originally Posted by IncX

i wont even consider it death metal (sorry)

What you consider death metal is irrelevant; besides, Obscura sounds more to me like technical death metal. Prog =/= tech.
By the way, I'm sorry our oldest, least musically developed song isn't fast or heavy enough for you to consider it death metal. Maybe one song off the rest of the album could make the cut.

Jesus... It's like it's a competition or something.
My question was regarding the mix, not the genre. Anyone who has some pointers or thoughts about the production is welcome to comment. Anyone who wants to get in a pissing contest about genres need not respond.

[powmetalbassist]

As a metal head I feel I have to warn you. This forum seems somewhat hostile towards metal. It being a public forum open to bassists of all genres, that is to be expected. Also people have a certain preconception of what "death metal" is. Try not to specify too much (sub genres, and such) just metal you might get a less critical response.

[BritPicker]

I'm not usually a fan of the newer metal genres - my criticism of much of it having no "groove", too many changes, waay too much kick drum, and generally being a bit tuneless.

That said, you avoided these things! I liked what you are doing here, it's pretty darn tight, and there's some nice "hooks" in there. I know it's prog and all that, and you tend not to repeat stuff like in a pop song, but sometimes it's nice to hear the catchy bits repeated. Again, I'm unfamiliar with the genre, maybe I'm missing the point.

So yeah, I liked it. It made me smile. Wish I could understand the words though, again maybe you're not supposed to.

And we can hear the bass! So that's good!

Rock on!

[Dbass10]

I just gave it a listen and I think the mix sounds really good! I don't have the greatest computer speakers, but everything was very clear and the drums had a very good spatial separation. There was a china or some kind of percussive accent in the last quarter of the song that I heard that stood out as maybe being a bit louder than the rest of the percussion,but maybe that was the intent...
Very solid!

[DuraMorte]

Originally Posted by powmetalbassist

As a metal head I feel I have to warn you. This forum seems somewhat hostile towards metal. It being a public forum open to bassists of all genres, that is to be expected. Also people have a certain preconception of what "death metal" is. Try not to specify too much (sub genres, and such) just metal you might get a less critical response.

With all due respect, this forum is designed for everyone, regardless of genre, or any other defining factor.
I appreciate the thought though.
Did you listen to the tune?

Originally Posted by BritPicker

I'm not usually a fan of the newer metal genres - my criticism of much of it having no "groove", too many changes, waay too much kick drum, and generally being a bit tuneless.
That said, you avoided these things! I liked what you are doing here, it's pretty darn tight, and there's some nice "hooks" in there. I know it's prog and all that, and you tend not to repeat stuff like in a pop song, but sometimes it's nice to hear the catchy bits repeated. Again, I'm unfamiliar with the genre, maybe I'm missing the point.
So yeah, I liked it. It made me smile. Wish I could understand the words though, again maybe you're not supposed to.
And we can hear the bass! So that's good!
Rock on!

Thanks for listening!
I hate those things about modern metal too, which is why I try to avoid those pitfalls, and instead focus on getting a good, coherent, punchy mix, and not worrying about how 'brootal' it is.
I'm trying to get my band to write in more repeated catchy hooks, but it's going slowly; they want to get heavier and less melodic, but I love melodicism within heavy songs.
As far as the vocals go... they're an acquired taste. And the longer you listen to it, the more you can pick out. We have a fairly coherent singer, so that works in our favor.

Originally Posted by Dbass10

I just gave it a listen and I think the mix sounds really good! I don't have the greatest computer speakers, but everything was very clear and the drums had a very good spatial separation. There was a china or some kind of percussive accent in the last quarter of the song that I heard that stood out as maybe being a bit louder than the rest of the percussion,but maybe that was the intent...
Very solid!

Thanks a ton for the feedback!
I was mixing for that good separation, so everything was clearly audible without one instrument overpowering anything else, and I think I'm getting there.
Hopefully this newest mix will be less 'sparse', but still maintain that good separation.

It can be found here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/508731/Perpe...%20Rev%207.mp3

(I'll also update the OP.)
Thanks again, everyone! Your comments are helping me improve.

[audiomitch]

Sounds great, very professional. The drummer sounds like he's fun to play with My only suggestion, which may not be appropriate for the genre, is to maybe change up the soundscape between parts? Your mix is technically just about perfect, beautiful soundstage and blend of frequencies. All the parts are represented and clear. Now maybe adding a little "art" to the mixing? Daniel Lanois meets Mudvayne?

OTOH, I'm a product of an era of over produced albums, so what the heck do I know?

I like the last mix, it sounds like you turned up the bass? Nice.

[DuraMorte]

Originally Posted by audiomitch

Sounds great, very professional. The drummer sounds like he's fun to play with My only suggestion, which may not be appropriate for the genre, is to maybe change up the soundscape between parts? Your mix is technically just about perfect, beautiful soundstage and blend of frequencies. All the parts are represented and clear. Now maybe adding a little "art" to the mixing? Daniel Lanois meets Mudvayne?
OTOH, I'm a product of an era of over produced albums, so what the heck do I know?
I like the last mix, it sounds like you turned up the bass? Nice.

Wow, thanks so much for the awesome feedback!
Yes indeed, the drummer is very fun to play with! He's a huge Peart/Portnoy fan, so he writes awesome drum parts.
So you find the mix to be about "technically" perfect? That's awesome! I'm fighting with my monitoring situation constantly, so to hear that is like music to my ears. I don't think I'm going to try to get into "artistic" mixing, though. It's hard enough getting a good mix, the last thing I need is to make it more complicated.

I didn't really turn the bass up in the later mix, I just shifted the emphasis a bit. Boosted some lower midrange, and attenuated the upper midrange. That added some low-end thickness, but didn't muddy up the mix overall too much. I actually think the bass may be a bit too loud, but I'll wait until I get to my good monitors to figure that out for sure.
Thanks again for listening!

[BKBassDude]

The second mix is better, I still think the bass and guitars need more presence. It sounds like you guys are backing the singer and the drummer. Maybe it's cause of their place in the mix, but the guitars also sound weak.

Playing is solid, very tight. Some cool ideas.

I do agree that this song (not saying anything about your band as a whole) is not something I would describe as progressive death metal. It definitely has a LoG/modern thrash influence stronger than prog to me. To me prog is Opeth/early Cynic/late Death and that like. Not to say I didn't think it was a well made tune, but I could see how one could debate the genre.

[DuraMorte]

Originally Posted by BKBassDude

The second mix is better, I still think the bass and guitars need more presence. It sounds like you guys are backing the singer and the drummer. Maybe it's cause of their place in the mix, but the guitars also sound weak.

If you're used to the sound of modern metal records, then yeah, my mix will sound 'weak' by comparison. Modern metal records are all guitar and vocals, and very little drums and bass.
If you like Lamb of God, get a copy of Wrath with the 'studio experience' CD included. Import all four parts of any one song into a DAW and give it a listen. It's an eye-opening experience, for sure. The pre-mastering mix is so punchy and alive, compared to the flat, bland album version.
I tried to make my mix as open and transparent as possible, and that means going against some 'modern' trends. But I'm okay with that.

Playing is solid, very tight. Some cool ideas.

Thanks!

I do agree that this song (not saying anything about your band as a whole) is not something I would describe as progressive death metal. It definitely has a LoG/modern thrash influence stronger than prog to me. To me prog is Opeth/early Cynic/late Death and that like. Not to say I didn't think it was a well made tune, but I could see how one could debate the genre.

We're going to post the entire album online when we release, so you'll be able to make a better evaluation then.
But trust me, we definitely prog sometimes.

[baalroo]

yeah, sounds pretty great, but maybe just a touch more presence (mids?) in the guitar and a little tiny bit less definition in the vocals... sounds just a little bit too hi-fi IMO, doesn't quite have the warmth I like to hear. Of course, it's completely subjective at this point because the mix sounds good as is, I'd just like a touch more "oomph."

[Eric Albany]

This is how I got laryngitis. No, I'm not part of the band. This is the closest my music sounds to flowers and candy and sunshine and Sonny and Chare. I'm much more hard core than this but I still like it. Great job with the recording, but the intro was too slow and didn't fit the song well. Try more of an alternative rock type intro. Listen to Helena by My Chemical Romance and base your intros off that songs tone and tempo. I would also suggest making the intro and outro sound like they're being played off a phonograph then make the rest of the music, excluding vocals, sound more gritty. That'll set you apart from everyone else. Once again, I'm not part of any of the bands on this thread.
BTW: you sound a little too main stream. Do everything you can to set yourselves apart from everyone else. It'll give you an edge over everyone else and might land you some attention from major people in the music industry.

Good luck,
Eric

[audiomitch]

Originally Posted by DuraMorte

I actually think the bass may be a bit too loud,

Blasphemy!

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by Eric Albany

This is how I got laryngitis. No, I'm not part of the band. This is the closest my music sounds to flowers and candy and sunshine and Sonny and Chare. I'm much more hard core than this but I still like it. Great job with the recording, but the intro was too slow and didn't fit the song well. Try more of an alternative rock type intro. Listen to Helena by My Chemical Romance and base your intros off that songs tone and tempo. I would also suggest making the intro and outro sound like they're being played off a phonograph then make the rest of the music, excluding vocals, sound more gritty. That'll set you apart from everyone else. Once again, I'm not part of any of the bands on this thread.
BTW: you sound a little too main stream. Do everything you can to set yourselves apart from everyone else. It'll give you an edge over everyone else and might land you some attention from major people in the music industry.

Good luck,
Eric

Eric Has Spoken.

His Word Is Law.

[Eric Albany]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Eric Has Spoken.

His Word Is Law.

Thank you, thank you. I wish I had a speech prepared, but I was notified late. JK

[DuraMorte]

Originally Posted by baalroo

yeah, sounds pretty great, but maybe just a touch more presence (mids?) in the guitar and a little tiny bit less definition in the vocals... sounds just a little bit too hi-fi IMO, doesn't quite have the warmth I like to hear. Of course, it's completely subjective at this point because the mix sounds good as is, I'd just like a touch more "oomph."

Yeah, the hifi sound is what I wanted; a lot of bands ruin good mixes by trying to sound gritty, when clarity is what they really need. I can think of several albums off the top of my head that fit that description.
Still, I appreciate the listen and feedback, and if a few other people repeat that same sentiment I will adjust the mix to compensate. There is such a thing as too clean, after all.
Thanks!