rant! (joni mitchell concert with pastorius, metheny and brecker)

bos_mindwarp · #1 08-02-2005, 07:20 PM

I just watched the "Shadows and Light" concert, Joni Mitchell, Pastorius, Metheny and Brecker. With that said I have to explain few things about myself, I'm born 1972, and prior to watching the vid I had no idea who Joni Mitchell was.

My rant is... there's too little shots of Jaco there. The camera keeps focusing on Joni, and her antics are really cheesy. Shes dressed ugly, has silly appearance in overall, and acts like SHE is the star on that stage. I mean all three of the other guys are bigger acts then she is. Ok I can't blame cameraman for focusing on her, I have no idea, it might as well be "her gig" but her acting ticks me off.

If at least she looked good...

There I said it, now I can sleep

Lackey · #2 08-02-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bos_mindwarp

I just watched the "Shadows and Light" concert, Joni Mitchell, Pastorius, Metheny and Brecker. With that said I have to explain few things about myself, I'm born 1972, and prior to watching the vid I had no idea who Joni Mitchell was.

My rant is... there's too little shots of Jaco there. The camera keeps focusing on Joni, and her antics are really cheesy. Shes dressed ugly, has silly appearance in overall, and acts like SHE is the star on that stage. I mean all three of the other guys are bigger acts then she is. Ok I can't blame cameraman for focusing on her, I have no idea, it might as well be "her gig" but her acting ticks me off.

If at least she looked good...

There I said it, now I can sleep

I agree about too little coverage of Jaco, but compared to Lyle Mays, he's got tons!

As for Joni acting like she's the star, well, she is! You bought a DVD with her name on it, her songs on it, and her performance of the songs is what the audience came to hear. As for the other three guys being "...bigger acts then she is", I must disagree. At that time in particular, she had far more record sales and albums to her name than any of the other guys, and before I ever heard about Jaco, Metheny, or Brecker I had heard of and LISTENED to Joni Mitchell.

I'm not hip on the charts or stuff like that, but I'm willing to bet that even now Joni's record sales outpace Metheny's.

Unbeknownst to you perhaps, she was (is) a huge star!

bos_mindwarp · #3 08-02-2005, 07:39 PM

Yeah I figured she might have been a star back then, it all totally gets back to me, but I just can't help having the perspective I have

KPJ · #4 08-02-2005, 07:49 PM

Charles Mingus picked Joni Mitchell to record his last work before he died. This ended up being her album "Mingus". Pretty high praise, don't you think? Joni has always been an incredible talent and she has always chosen great talent to back her up. She used to hate the way other bass players played on her recordings, being supportive and playing the notes. She loved the approach that Jaco brought to her music. At her best, Joni is a great amalgamation of singer/songwriter/folk/jazz. If you haven't done so, check out "Hejera" a GREAT album that Jaco plays on (about half the songs, I think). The lead cut "Coyote" sounds like avant garde country(!) and Jaco's melodic counterpoint propels the song and energizes Joni's lyric!

superbassman2000 · #5 08-02-2005, 07:52 PM

well, as much as i think that the others in the group were better than joni, you still have to agree, the concert was joni's her name was up there and the other guys were supporting her. Lackey is right...her name is on the DVD, why should the camera focus on anyone but her? now i like jaco as much as anyone here, but he was still the side man, no matter how good he is...

fraublugher · #6 08-02-2005, 08:36 PM

while the camera 's may have been poorly directed , jaco as joni's band MD stands as some of his best work on record.

also joni later revealed in an interview that jaco was having a hard time of it that day , so ...

Passinwind · #7 08-02-2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bos_mindwarp

My rant is... there's too little shots of Jaco there. The camera keeps focusing on Joni, and her antics are really cheesy. Shes dressed ugly, has silly appearance in overall, and acts like SHE is the star on that stage. I mean all three of the other guys are bigger acts then she is. Ok I can't blame cameraman for focusing on her, I have no idea, it might as well be "her gig" but her acting ticks me off.

That's cool, at least you've admitted you don't have a clue.

No offense meant, of course.

I saw one of the shows on the tour, in a roughly 12,000 seat arena. It was sold out, or really close to it. At that time, Jaco or Pat could've maybe sold 3000 seats as solo acts, tops. Probably considerably less in many markets though. Brecker was playing clubs, maybe 1000 seaters tops except for in a few big cities. Joni could draw up to maybe 30,000 in the right venues at the time, regardless of who was in her band. The people she didn't take out on that tour speak volumes: McLaughlin, Herbie Hancock, etc.

I've never seen the DVD. Should I pony for it if I ever get around to buying a DVD player? The CD is OK, a little uneven but OK. Jaco played much more convincingly on this tour than the Weather Report show I saw. Pat had just won Top Guitar Player in Guitar Player magazine, and went out of his way to be not-a-rockstar, which was pretty funny given all the attention he got at the show I saw.

Anyhow, you might want to check out some other Mitchell sides. The ones with Jaco are all pretty cool. Also, check out photos of Joni in the 60s. She was extremely hot by most people's standards.

bos_mindwarp · #8 08-03-2005, 12:10 AM

Yeah, I guess I'll check her out. Btw, the dvd is allright, if you're a fan.

Passinwind · #9 08-03-2005, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bos_mindwarp

Yeah, I guess I'll check her out. Btw, the dvd is allright, if you're a fan.

In all honesty, I went to the show mainly because of the allstar band, and I certainly wasn't disappointed. I like the albums with Jaco more than her others, but some of them had some pretty smoking players besides Jaco, and her songwriting is pretty killer IMHO.

JimK · #10 08-03-2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

I've never seen the DVD. Should I pony for it if I ever get around to buying a DVD player?

Pony up? It was released DOMESTICALLY last year. Best Buy has it for about $14.
Now onto my story & the video(which I have gone into several times on this site).

The video was originally released in 1980(or so). It came & went OOP...so I didn't buy it until about 5 years ago, finally ponying up the $50 for the VHS tape from Audiophile Imports. This was the FIRST time I had seen it(seeing Jaco 'come back to life' was great). Anyway, a few menths later, a DVD outta Hong Kong pops up on AI's site...I buy that for another $50.
...and then the DVD gets released domestically for under $15.
As far as the album? I bought it in '80 on LP, then CD(edited onto one disc) & then bought the 2-disc set(missing tracks put back in).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Also, check out photos of Joni in the 60s. She was extremely hot by most people's standards.

Yes, she was big even back then. Was it at Woodstock where she asked the masses to pipe down so she could sing her set?
The Other Roads(?) DVD is also worth checking out....it's her '80s band comprised of Vinnie, Michael Landau, Russell Ferrante, & Larry Klein. More Rovckin' than the Jaco/Metheny/Brecker/Mays/Alias band.

KPJ · #11 08-03-2005, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimK

Yes, she was big even back then. Was it at Woodstock where she asked the masses to pipe down so she could sing her set?

That was Isle of Wight.

dlloyd · #12 08-03-2005, 05:38 AM

She was a bigger name than Metheney or Pastorius then, and she's a bigger name than either of them now.

Blue by Joni Mitchell ranks #485 in sales on Amazon
Jaco Pastorius by Jaco ranks #3,255

Like it or not, Joni is a far more influential musician than Jaco.

djcruse · #13 08-03-2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bos_mindwarp

I mean all three of the other guys are bigger acts then she is.

No, sir! Joni is far more famous than her sidemen.

I don't know if I'd call her more "influential" than Jaco, but she's certainly more famous in music.

dougjwray · #14 08-03-2005, 07:04 AM

It's funny... when I first heard "Hejira" in '76 I was happy to hear Jaco strutting all over Joni's music, providing some relief from her self-absorbed whining.
Now I prefer albums like "Blue" because there's no scene-stealing bassist distracting me from her brilliant writing, singing and guitar playing! How perspectives can change!

I vote for Joni being the more musically influential of the two.

Muzique Fann · #15 08-03-2005, 02:27 PM

Great concert dvd. It's cool to see the Santa Barbara bowl back in the day - I've seen a ton of shows there. Jaco played great, but he looked high as a kite.

There's also an awesome Bob Marley dvd from the Santa Barbara bowl.

lucas vigor · #16 08-03-2005, 02:42 PM

Joni Mtchell....a more depressing artist cannot be found. Apparently, most of her lyrics are a reflection of the pain and shame and regret she felt for giving up her daughter for adoption..that being said, the woman is a total genius...a total nut, probably really hard to work with, but a genius nonetheless. Very few rock/pop artists outside of toto and steely dan are or were also at the cutting edge of jazz fusion.

And she was hot...that's for sure. Even today, she is still very attractive.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #17 08-03-2005, 06:28 PM

She hired Jaco, paid him a $50,000 advance which allowed him to buy the home that Ingrid still lives in. Her success made it possible to hire great musicians.
She wrote the music; Jaco didn't.
If you don't think she has talent, listen to Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and get back to me.

That said, Jaco was the greatest bass play living. As bass players, we
often listen to our own kind. Expand your horizons. Listen to Coltrane, or Stravinsky. We can learn from all of 'em.