Recording

Leftybass12 · #1 09-08-2010, 06:07 AM

This is a big question that I've been wanting to ask for a while. My buddy and I have a bunch of originals made and are working with a drummer to and singer to complete the songs. The recording of the drums will take place at my house, equipment issues with the other place. I know that in the recording process usually is
1. Drums
2. Bass
3. Guitar
4. Etc. (keys and other such things)
5. Vocals

The problem though is that the drummer has no recording experience whatsoever. So, I think he's predetermined that the process is going to be him just playing to a click track, but I know this is wrong (sort of).
What I'm really asking for is, how the heck to pros actually record their songs? I know that they have usually written the song and then go into the studio to record, but again, how does that whole process really work? I honestly am very confused by it also, because I'll see drummers record but there is already the song playing and then I just see them playing to a click track with nothing backing that up. Ugh! It's all so very confusing right now for me. Please help.

Bruce Lindfield · #2 09-08-2010, 06:17 AM

If you all have little experience, I think it's going to be very hard to go with drums on their own - I think it would be a good idea to go with a "guide track" first - which contains a skeleton of the song - maybe some vocals and rhythm guitar to a click - or everybody will get lost when they are on their own!

Then you need to have that in your cans when recording your parts. Of course you lose the guide track from the final mix, which will have all the finished parts isolated, to enable separate EQ'ing etc.

Pros record in many ways - but that doesn't mean you should do that, as beginners!

namraj · #3 09-08-2010, 06:24 AM

I often use a ghost track (record a live take with vocals as a guide).

A click can work but it requires the drummer to know the song well and to emulate the feeling without the rest of the instruments.

Just guitar and vox guide tracks can work too.

Or what I quite like doing is recording live takes with the whole band to a click track, but you need an audio interface with lots of inputs then.

EDIT: Bruce beat me to it

fu22ba55 · #4 09-08-2010, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leftybass12

What I'm really asking for is, how the heck to pros actually record their songs?

There are many, many ways to approach it... depending upon the style of music, producer's style, etc...

Depending upon the style of music, you may find it easier to record Bass, Drums and Rhythm Guitar simultaneously, (no click track), and add vocals and guitar leads later. This approach usually gives you more of an organic sound... the band sounds more "together", rather than the one-instrument-at-a-time approach.

What kind of music are you talking about? Jazz, Metal, Indie/Songwriter-ly?

One situation where I can see the merits of the drummer recording to a click is if you want to layer lots of sequenced tracks on top. (more drum machines, sequenced synths.)

Bruce Lindfield · #5 09-08-2010, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

There are many, many ways to approach it... depending upon the style of music, producer's style, etc...

Depending upon the style of music, you may find it easier to record Bass, Drums and Rhythm Guitar simultaneously, (no click track), and add vocals and guitar leads later. This approach usually gives you more of an organic sound... the band sounds more "together", rather than the one-instrument-at-a-time approach.

What kind of music are you talking about? Jazz, Metal, Indie/Songwriter-ly?

One situation where I can see the merits of the drummer recording to a click is if you want to layer lots of sequenced tracks on top. (more drum machines, sequenced synths.)

The advantage of recording separate tracks is that you can be sure that there is no "bleed" between instruments and then you can alter the EQ and effects for each instrument separately.

If you're not in a pro studio, you may end up with vocals or guitars coming through the drum mics and this will interfere with your final mix, if you want to boost a drum or EQ it differently or add effects in the mix - like reverb?

So if your drummer is just playing to a "guide track" on cans, that is deleted later - then you can be sure the drums are "clean" and can be mixed and altered freely without upsetting anything else.

Hellbastard · #6 09-08-2010, 07:50 AM

May I ask what are you planning to use to record the drums?
Drums are very difficult to record, specially when you don't really know what you're doing. Where in your house are you going to record, is the room treated with any kind of acoustic panels, bass traps, diffusors? Recording drums in a small untreated room is going to sound terrible at the best.
You also gotta think about the mics, what do you have? SM57 for snare and toms, a good bass drum Mic like a Beta 52 or an AKG D112? A good pair of condenser mic for overheads?
There are choices of cheap drum mic kits, but I've found they are not very detailed and generally sound, well cheap. CAD makes a good kit that costs about 200 bucks, but if the room sound bad the mics aren't going to make it better.

All of the above are things you gotta think before comiting to produce your demo.
Finally, you say the drummer doesn't have any experience recording drums. If you don't record listening to a click the song will be changing tempo, and feel a lot; unless that's the idea a click track is imperative.
Maybe since you are recording just a demo you should try sequencing the drums, there are really great Drum Sampler that you can tweak to create really good sounding drum tracks, plus you get a lot control over these tracks.
Sequencing is a really great option and the only thing that could get hurt is the drummer's Ego.

For Guitars and bass I've found that for home recording is better to go D.I and then use a Software like Amplitube to tailor the sound.

Vocals: Get a good condenser mic, the AT2020 it fairly cheap and has good reviews; also it can be used with other instruments like acoustic guitars and guitar Amplifiers.
Get a good Pop filter, this will help to reduce the plosive sounds.
A Good quality Mic Stand is a must, try to get one with thick rubber feet, this will ensure that you don't get a lot of noise coming from the floor through the mic stand.

Keys are very easy just connect the outputs to your interface and record. You could also record via MIDI to then use the VSTi on your computer.

When I record I usually follow the following procedure.

First we sequence the song's basic structure.
The we sequence the drums and export each Drum to a separate track. This way I can add effects, EQ or anything to a specific track without altering the rest of the drum kit.

Second I record the bass, using a click track, the sequenced drums and the Song's sequence to get a nice overall feeling of the song and a steady tempo. After you have this you don't need the song sequence anymore.

Third come the rhythmic Guitars.

Fourth The Keyboards.

Fifth I record the Vocals Lead Parts and chorus.
Finally I We record the lead parts of both the guitars and the keybords if there are any. And we see if there's anything else we can add to make the song better.

After this is all done you're off to mixing, but that's a different story.

Leftybass12 · #7 09-08-2010, 10:10 AM

@ fu22ba55
It's just your regular boring 4/4 time rock. The reason I say it's boring is because I am wanting to have time signature changes, key signature changes, very Dream Theater, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Coheed and Cambria, Liquid Tension Experiment inspired stuff....essentially I am very much ahead of my bandmates musically, for example the drummer who has been playing about a year doesn't know at all how to count outside of 4/4 and the guitarist relys heavily on the instrument to figure out chords and scales and I don't see myself in the band much longer, but I'm mainly asking these questions for future use.

@ hellbastard I'm going to use some shure drum mics, I can't remember what models though. I do know a few things about mics and I know shure is a reliable brand, also we would be recording in a small untreated room...mostly because my bandmates take it seiously enough to participate and interact, but when they realized that there actually is a good amount of work put into a band they nesscessarily haven't liked it since, or they have put in just enough effort to barely break even (I hope you understand what I mean). Again I don't see myself with them much longer because I honestly cannot take this much longer.

DBTOYS · #8 09-08-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

There are many, many ways to approach it... depending upon the style of music, producer's style, etc...

Depending upon the style of music, you may find it easier to record Bass, Drums and Rhythm Guitar simultaneously, (no click track), and add vocals and guitar leads later. This approach usually gives you more of an organic sound... the band sounds more "together", rather than the one-instrument-at-a-time approach.

What kind of music are you talking about? Jazz, Metal, Indie/Songwriter-ly?

One situation where I can see the merits of the drummer recording to a click is if you want to layer lots of sequenced tracks on top. (more drum machines, sequenced synths.)

+123

This is the way we do it and it works well!!!! then you can add or delete later.

Hellbastard · #9 09-11-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leftybass12

@ fu22ba55
... also we would be recording in a small untreated room....

I can tell you that the drums are not going to sound good at all, small rooms are very difficult to deal with and without any kind of acoustical treatment the results can only be worse. If I were you I wouldn't even bother to record with a band I'm not happy with.